Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

transportenvironment.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 336 posts

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#11

Post by padelt »

happyscrappy wrote: post #3
yc1010 wrote: post #2

"On average, two-thirds of the claimed gains in CO2 emissions and fuel consumption since 2008 have been delivered through manipulating tests" How deep does this rabbit hole go :( Here in Ireland the motortax for cars newer than 2008 is based on CO2 emissions, if motorists find their tax rising due to cheating by car manufacturers thats an unexpected and direct cost to their wallets.

Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment, hybrids would have been the way to go.

> Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment

Were we led astray? Or are we discussing the last few percentages beyond an actual advantage over gasoline engines?

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#12

Post by other_herbert »

etimberg wrote: post #5

I went through to the actual report ( http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publicati... ) and found an infographic (figure 8) that shows some of the methods manufacturers can use to defeat tests. "Pushing the brake pads fully into the callipers reduces rolling resistance" is apparently one way. That makes me ask the question, why don't we do this already? If it reduces rolling resistance it probably als…

As long as the system can quickly return them gently to the rotor surface...

If you change your own brake pads you know that after you finish it can take two whole presses of the brake pedal to get the pads to contact the rotors

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#14

Post by axx »

I think we all should agree that this is the same for every car manufacturer (except electric). Sure, european manufacturers are the target now, but i expect same results from all other manufacturers (including asian and american).

Lab results never represent real street results. How could they? People drive differently and the outcome is based on many aspects that you can't reproduce in lab conditions.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#15

Post by emp_zealoth »

etimberg wrote: post #5

I went through to the actual report ( http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publicati... ) and found an infographic (figure 8) that shows some of the methods manufacturers can use to defeat tests. "Pushing the brake pads fully into the callipers reduces rolling resistance" is apparently one way. That makes me ask the question, why don't we do this already? If it reduces rolling resistance it probably als…

The brake pads and jaws get contaminated with dust and the like,making them stick a little. My guess is they get disassembled before test and cleaned perfectly.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#16

Post by emp_zealoth »

larrydag wrote: post #10
mgiannopoulos wrote: post #4

So, any Japanese or American companies doing this as well? Who's next?

I'm guessing its across the industry. I'm wondering if this is the tip of the iceberg.

Im pretty sure its just a case of completely out of control rules - they became impossible to follow, so everyone just decided to "play along"

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#17

Post by fithisux »

yc1010 wrote: post #2

"On average, two-thirds of the claimed gains in CO2 emissions and fuel consumption since 2008 have been delivered through manipulating tests" How deep does this rabbit hole go :( Here in Ireland the motortax for cars newer than 2008 is based on CO2 emissions, if motorists find their tax rising due to cheating by car manufacturers thats an unexpected and direct cost to their wallets.

Not their wallets. why should they pay for the fraud of corporates? Let the corporates replace cars .

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#18

Post by wil421 »

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #4

So, any Japanese or American companies doing this as well? Who's next?

For now the answer is inconclusive, but let's wait and see what tricks the gasoline models are playing.

The Chevy Cruze Diesel was as clean as promised in the US version but the European version may not be as clean[1].

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/tech-dive-chevy-cru...

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#19

Post by happyscrappy »

padelt wrote: post #11
happyscrappy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment, hybrids would have been the way to go.

> Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment Were we led astray? Or are we discussing the last few percentages beyond an actual advantage over gasoline engines?

The reason air pollution is so much worse in European cities than American ones is largely due to diesel passenger vehicles.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#20

Post by eterm »

axx wrote: post #14

I think we all should agree that this is the same for every car manufacturer (except electric). Sure, european manufacturers are the target now, but i expect same results from all other manufacturers (including asian and american). Lab results never represent real street results. How could they? People drive differently and the outcome is based on many aspects that you can't reproduce in lab conditions.

You are obfuscating the issue here.

The issue isn't that we can't "represent real street results", the issue is that manufacturers took deliberate steps to alter car behaviour with the intention of obtaining better test results than would be present outside the tests.

Post reply on HN