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Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

nytimes.com

21–30 of 54 posts

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tampons would have a high barter utility in a doomsday scenario. Alcohol and cigarettes would be in high demand too, I would imagine. Just think of household items people use on a daily/weekly/monthly basis that they couldnt live without.

Tampons would eventually be phased out with reusable fabric or a diva cup like device (silicone reservoir).

Not only that, but if the body weight of a woman (particularly her fat reserves) drops too low, her periods become sporadic. So if women are starving, periods become less of an issue. Something about evolution designing for not getting women pregnant when they don't have the resources to feed themselves, much less nurture an infant. Mother Nature is weird like that.

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#24

This is an interesting side effect of the capital controls. It reminds people once again that currency is really just a stand-in for goods and services produced in an economy. I particularly liked that generic barter (like time for time) was seen as problematic with this quote : "But many of those systems were plagued by inefficiencies. Time banks discovered that one unit of a doctor’s time was more valuable than a u…

Greece's monetary policy, if we can call it that, isn't the only problem in Greece. The Greek labor market is over-regulated, favoring the older generation over the younger, and corruption in government is widespread. Greece's government debt overload, and subsequent default, are just symptoms of this state of affairs.

It certainly doesn't help, though, that the Greek people are practically forced to use their government's debt as money (Euros backed by Greek government bonds).

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#25

This is an interesting side effect of the capital controls. It reminds people once again that currency is really just a stand-in for goods and services produced in an economy. I particularly liked that generic barter (like time for time) was seen as problematic with this quote : "But many of those systems were plagued by inefficiencies. Time banks discovered that one unit of a doctor’s time was more valuable than a u…

The online barter systems seem to be de facto creating an alternate currency. IIRC, the one profiled in the article uses "points" that are the equivalent of Euros (scanning, I can't verify this atm, but I read more than one article before submitting this one, so maybe I read it elsewhere). So if you have 600 points in your online account, you have the equivalent of 600 Euros to work with.

I think it isn't Greece's monetary policy that is out of whack. I haven't really studied it, but my impression from casual reading is that the economy is being crushed by things like high benefits packages for government workers. So when you engage in barter, you side step that. You trade THIS thing for THAT and there is no cost tacked on for putting money into a retirement account or paying for disability insurance etc. You just need tires and need food or you have meat and need tires, and you make the trade to meet your needs in the here and now and let tomorrow worry about itself, thus you don't reduce the value in the here and now of what you traded by setting aside one of your four tires "in case something happens" and driving on three good tires and one bad or whatever. (Trying to come up with a goods based equivalent of the overhead of retirement and so on benefits.)

Anyway, I thought it was neat that a) barter is being facilitated in part by online services b) those services are engaging in some of the same practices PayPal engages in to make sure it is secure and c) it is de facto creating a virtual currency without any intent to create currency. In fact, the intent is to side step the need for currency. Nonetheless, the tracking of points that you can spend is the essence of a currency. The single biggest real value money has is it lubricates trade by creating something universally accepted so you don't have to ask dozens of people if they will take Thing You Have in exchange for Thing You Need. You can just sell it to Person Who Needs It and then turn around and buy what you need.

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#26
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm. I was gonna call BS on poor greeks not having computers, but http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-gree... That's fair, a ledger system would be more helpful here. But for BTC it's not a matter of them needing to mine or purchase bitcoin with money. You just need to bring in a couple people who already have bitcoin and then you buy bitcoin for your meat or tires. Once you have bitcoin, it's po…

BTC adds too many layers of complications at which point the issues with exchange in these small local market systems might as well acquire normal tangible currency like Dollars or Euros. And very few people want to trade food, tires, or liquid assets for currency because currency, be it BTC, Euro, Dollar or gold, seems worthless compared to the food or tires. The main issue BTC and Euros can't solve in these situati…

I suppose that Greeks could begin selling their production for export at some discount to foreigners for BTC and then use that BTC for local trade. The people outside cities who have land and use that land to create food (plants and animals) could eventually bring enough BTC into the hands of Greeks to make the economy work in a somewhat normal fashion.

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#28
post #10
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the strong countries (e.g. Germany) control the value of Euro then countries like the size of Greece will be always in trouble. I am Greek and the biggest mistake that we made was to enter the Eurozone. Euro is good only for very strong countries, but even those countries can have problems sometimes. A very good example is Finland and Sweden. The former has problems because of Euro but the latter thrives b…

"A very good example is Finland and Sweden. The former has problems because of Euro but the latter thrives because they control their currency." There are several reasons for this - many of which are likely more important than the Euro - such as Finland having relied mainly on the declining paper industry and Nokia for exports while Swedish exports are more diverse.

Nokia are Finnish though.

Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece

#30
post #10
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the strong countries (e.g. Germany) control the value of Euro then countries like the size of Greece will be always in trouble. I am Greek and the biggest mistake that we made was to enter the Eurozone. Euro is good only for very strong countries, but even those countries can have problems sometimes. A very good example is Finland and Sweden. The former has problems because of Euro but the latter thrives b…

"A very good example is Finland and Sweden. The former has problems because of Euro but the latter thrives because they control their currency." There are several reasons for this - many of which are likely more important than the Euro - such as Finland having relied mainly on the declining paper industry and Nokia for exports while Swedish exports are more diverse.

That's the beauty of having your own floating currency though. Independent of what the problem is, your trade balance evens out automatically. If a country's forestry exports tank, imports will become more expensive and exports will become more competitive though currency depreciation. And people will eat more domestic cheese vs imported, stimulating domestic demand.
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