So, when stocking my bunker, what should I put in there that will have high barter potential?
Alcohol. Both disinfecting-strength and recreating-strength.
Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
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Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#12So, when stocking my bunker, what should I put in there that will have high barter potential?
Traditionally? Alcohol and Cigarettes. Although I think if you put an alchohol still in your bunker then you'd basically be able to print (pour?) your own currency over the long haul.
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bitcoin has too high a barrier to entry for normal people, especially impoverished citizens of Greece. Attempts were made with Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) which from the sound of it were adhoc swap meets / bartering exchanges which would peg an alternate currency unit [ (Greek: Τοπική Εναλλακτική Μονάδα ("Alternative Monetary Unit"); abbrv: TEM ] to the Euro and in some cases debt was accepted between indiv…
Hmmm. I was gonna call BS on poor greeks not having computers, but http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/07/15/one-in-three-gree... That's fair, a ledger system would be more helpful here. But for BTC it's not a matter of them needing to mine or purchase bitcoin with money. You just need to bring in a couple people who already have bitcoin and then you buy bitcoin for your meat or tires. Once you have bitcoin, it's po…
BTC adds too many layers of complications at which point the issues with exchange in these small local market systems might as well acquire normal tangible currency like Dollars or Euros. And very few people want to trade food, tires, or liquid assets for currency because currency, be it BTC, Euro, Dollar or gold, seems worthless compared to the food or tires.
The main issue BTC and Euros can't solve in these situations is the prerequisite of acquiring the money units to begin with in order to facilitate the exchanges and local economy - thus the reason why the swap meets were using TEMs which facilitated a form of debt and exchange medium.
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#14This kind of feels like an opportunity to use bitcoin or another digital currency, doesn't it?
All the disadvantages of the Euro - low inflation, no control over interest rates - with extreme volatility of demand thrown in?
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#15Considering the habitual non-reporting of income that has been present in the Greek economy, my first thought is this is just another way to buy and sell stuff while avoiding VAT taxes.
Depressing, if true. Are there any signs that the Greeks are learning to pay taxes as a patriotic duty to enable the supportive government they have come to appreciate?
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#16Considering the habitual non-reporting of income that has been present in the Greek economy, my first thought is this is just another way to buy and sell stuff while avoiding VAT taxes. Depressing, if true. Are there any signs that the Greeks are learning to pay taxes as a patriotic duty to enable the supportive government they have come to appreciate?
Honest question: how do you teach a corrupt society to start paying taxes? The economy there works with the assumption that your tax load is light, so things like rents and price of goods reflect that. It would be difficult for people to go from paying 10% tax to a Eurozone typical 44% tax overnight. The economy would collapse instantly.
I supposed you can slowly bring it in, but how? Who has the political capital? And if you do how long would it take to do this safely without hurting the already damaged economy? A decade perhaps? Two?
I don't envy the policy makers there right now. The people don't want to be responsible, at least a majority considering how easily Syriza keeps winning and more moderate parties keep losing. Ironically, if they want low taxes they should shoot for a low regulatory, small government, small social services US-style model instead of the welfare state Euro model they're aiming for. Yeah, Germany and France can get way with it because not only are these countries incredibly wealthy, but the people there actually pay their taxes. You can't have Somalian tax loads and French lifestyles.
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#17Considering the habitual non-reporting of income that has been present in the Greek economy, my first thought is this is just another way to buy and sell stuff while avoiding VAT taxes. Depressing, if true. Are there any signs that the Greeks are learning to pay taxes as a patriotic duty to enable the supportive government they have come to appreciate?
A supportive government would have weakened the currency and not pushed austerity on the Greeks. Also, the Eurozone is not a government, it's a monetary union [1].
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#18So, when stocking my bunker, what should I put in there that will have high barter potential?
Tampons would have a high barter utility in a doomsday scenario. Alcohol and cigarettes would be in high demand too, I would imagine. Just think of household items people use on a daily/weekly/monthly basis that they couldnt live without.
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#19This is an interesting side effect of the capital controls. It reminds people once again that currency is really just a stand-in for goods and services produced in an economy. I particularly liked that generic barter (like time for time) was seen as problematic with this quote : "But many of those systems were plagued by inefficiencies. Time banks discovered that one unit of a doctor’s time was more valuable than a unit of a babysitter’s, complicating trades."
All of which just seems to highlight that Greece's monetary policy is out of whack, not its basic economy. It would be interesting to see a two currency economic model, where one currency was priced by durable goods and services, and the other by government services.
The exchange rate should give an interesting window into where the challenges are.
Re: Trading Meat for Tires as Bartering Economy Grows in Greece
#20So, when stocking my bunker, what should I put in there that will have high barter potential?
Tampons would have a high barter utility in a doomsday scenario. Alcohol and cigarettes would be in high demand too, I would imagine. Just think of household items people use on a daily/weekly/monthly basis that they couldnt live without.
Tampons would eventually be phased out with reusable fabric or a diva cup like device (silicone reservoir).