This is a terrible graph. It took me five minutes to figure out how everything is related. Data such as this is much more naturally plotted as an x-y scatter-plot. Thickness of the datapoints could indicate number of doctor visits. Instead, the graph eliminates the x-axis, but retains the space. Very strange choice.
Agreed. Here's the same data in a scatter plot (second chart down). Far, far easier to grasp. http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2009...
Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
71–80 of 107 posts
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#72Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#73This is a terrible graph. It took me five minutes to figure out how everything is related. Data such as this is much more naturally plotted as an x-y scatter-plot. Thickness of the datapoints could indicate number of doctor visits. Instead, the graph eliminates the x-axis, but retains the space. Very strange choice.
Wish I could provide a scan of the page as it went to print, but I only saw it while visiting family. Regardless, the presentation is clearly to cause that double take rather than just to efficiently convey the information.
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#74Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#751. Are there no data points between the United States and Switzerland? Are there no data points above the United States and below Mexico? If there are, that would make the graph misleading and they have to specify this limitation if they're intellectually honest. If there aren't, they have to demonstrate that they've gone through the exhaustive list of countries and there are no other "interesting" data points.
2. Is the cost adjusted for cost of living at a given country? If not, that would make the graph extremely misleading. If yes, what adjustment strategy was used? Can we see the ratio between cost of health care and median yearly salary, for example?
3. What does "average life expectancy at birth mean"? Does it account for countries that have a significantly lower birth rate than the United States? I would guess not, which could significantly affect the perception of the numbers. How does one normalize for something like that?
4. How was the currency conversion rate computed? Currency prices fluctuate throughout the year, did they account for that? How much does that affect the numbers? Could be a lot, could be a little, but I need to know whether this was taken into account.
5. What does "universal health coverage" mean? Soviet Union had universal health coverage and no medication, surgery performed by under-qualified residents, and no post-surgery care, unless you know someone or bribe the doctor, of course.
6. Surely there are countries without universal health care other than the U.S. and Mexico - how do they stack up?
7. I'm willing to bet a country like Poland has a lot more homeless people that don't factor into the life expectancy numbers than the U.S. That begs a more general question of whether the same methodology was used for computing the cost or life expectancy for each country. If they simply took official numbers from each country, it's almost certain that they were computed differently. Was this accounted for? If not, I need to know. If yes, how were the numbers normalized?
One could probably come up with dozens of questions like these. Of course any analysis of a problem that complex can be called into question, that doesn't mean every analysis is useless. But before we can seriously discuss this graph, or base any policy decisions on it, they at least have to provide the methodology. It doesn't look like this graph is intellectually honest to me, and the burden of proof is on the author.
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#76I think we should show a chart of each country's health care costs relative to how much their lawyers make on health care related malpractice cases. Because in America, it's out of control, and probably the largest reason health care costs so much. Honestly, a good first step in taming the health care and health insurance costs should be to cap how much lawyers make on malpractice cases. Why do people rarely talk abo…
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#77Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…
Not even that. Canada gets many South African doctors (most of which are fairly competent). In addition to this, they continually monitor doctors. So, if an incompetent doctor slips through, he is quickly caught and his license is revoked.
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point...poor lifestyle drives healthcare costs up. It would be interesting to see fast food spending or avg calories/day on top of this chart.
Couldn't agree more and it's a point a lot of people are hush-huse about because it's easier to point the finger at the system than poor personal habits. just a small sample... http://grab.by/1v6n
Yes, unhealthy dietary choices weighs the system down - but it weighs all systems down, and to say it accounts for the majority of the discrepancy is IMHO missing the gorilla in the room, which is that the US health care system is unbelievably broken.
Addendum: There is one thing where the US is very different from Canada. You guys eat the same stuff we do... but you eat much more of it. I'm pretty convinced that the average American can eat half, if not one quarter what they currently do and be just fine. Serving sizes in the US are so big that nowadays I often pack up lunch leftovers and have more than enough for dinner.
Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy
#79Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…
I agree with your overall point that the U.S. medical system suffers from overregulation. We could (and should) allow more primary care to be performed by, for instance, qualified nurses, RNs, and nurse-practitioners. As you point out, the existing guilds hate this idea. But your first point needs some correction. Health insurance is only tax-deductible when it's paid for by your employer. [EDIT: Just noticed you men…
In France, going to the doctor (general practitioner) costs €22, before insurance (it's €5 or €1 after insurance, the co-pay as you'd call it). It's much cheaper because:
- he didn't have to spend 200k to go to med school, it's free
- he doesn't need 5 employees to fill insurance forms, or waste 2h a day calling insurers -- it's all automagic, no paper involved.