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Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

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Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#31

Post by chrischen »

gabrielroth wrote: post #12
chrischen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also after a visit to a psychiatrist I found out they charge your insurance more, if you have it, than they would if you didn't. I'm not exactly sure what that was about, but if it was for sympathy, then it just shows that having a bureaucratic insurance company, private or government owned, would still have this problem of distancing the money from the patient. However I'm still a large proponent of not only life as…

It's nothing to do with sympathy. Many businesses try to charge different prices to different consumers based on ability to pay. If you charge a single fixed price, you'll miss out on some sales (to people who'd buy your product at a lower price) and on some profits (from people who'd pay more than you're charging). It's the same phenomenon behind coupons, sales, 'premium' and 'budget' versions, etc. etc. From a prov…

Well in any case, it my point still stands. They overcharge for insurance. In the end someone still has to pay that extra amount.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#32

Post by chrischen »

anigbrowl wrote: post #10
chrischen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also after a visit to a psychiatrist I found out they charge your insurance more, if you have it, than they would if you didn't. I'm not exactly sure what that was about, but if it was for sympathy, then it just shows that having a bureaucratic insurance company, private or government owned, would still have this problem of distancing the money from the patient. However I'm still a large proponent of not only life as…

One might argue that (up to a point) this justly represents the cost of administering the patient's insurance claim, whereas the patient who pays cash is only charged the cost of treatment and does not incur any administrative overhead.

Perhaps, but this administrative overhead would likely be existent with a public option too.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#33

Post by bengebre »

scott_s wrote: post #15

This is a terrible graph. It took me five minutes to figure out how everything is related. Data such as this is much more naturally plotted as an x-y scatter-plot. Thickness of the datapoints could indicate number of doctor visits. Instead, the graph eliminates the x-axis, but retains the space. Very strange choice.

Agreed. Here's the same data in a scatter plot (second chart down). Far, far easier to grasp.

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2009...

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#34

Post by hs »

of the three countries that have highest (and surprisingly parallel) slope: japan, south kore, mexico ... it suggests that #visit correlates with LE ... and health coverage is unimportant

but there are countries that have less #visit but more expensive (it suggests patients go to doctor not only for consultation) ... so #visit is an unreliable predictor so is cost

to me it seems the most predictive is location (yes, the country names are data points too) ... if i want to live long, i'll settle in japan and do what the average japanese for their healthy lifestyle

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#35

Post by pxlpshr »

terrellm wrote: post #14
nostrademons wrote: post #8

I wonder if this controls for various other lifestyle choices. I find it ironic that the government spends so much money subsidizing high fructose corn syrup, and then spends even more treating the health problems that result from it. If we didn't have an agricultural system that makes unhealthy food cheap and healthy food expensive, perhaps we wouldn't have quite so many obesity-related illnesses. Same thing with pa…

Good point...poor lifestyle drives healthcare costs up. It would be interesting to see fast food spending or avg calories/day on top of this chart.

Couldn't agree more and it's a point a lot of people are hush-huse about because it's easier to point the finger at the system than poor personal habits.

just a small sample... http://grab.by/1v6n

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#36

Post by scott_s »

hs wrote: post #30
scott_s wrote: post #15

This is a terrible graph. It took me five minutes to figure out how everything is related. Data such as this is much more naturally plotted as an x-y scatter-plot. Thickness of the datapoints could indicate number of doctor visits. Instead, the graph eliminates the x-axis, but retains the space. Very strange choice.

the graph gives an important ratio that's hard to capture in scatter plot age/cost (the slope) also, how do you identify your datapoints in scatter-plot neatly? to me this graph gives surprisingly rich information packed

I don't understand your first point; the relationship between two variables is more clear to me from a scatter plot. And that's something else that bothers me about the graph: when I look at a graph with lines, I expect to see trends. But the lines in this graph are actually single data points.

We're on the web, so it would be neat to be able to use the mouse to hover over data points to see labels.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#37

Post by igrekel »

lionhearted wrote: post #7

Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…

About point 3, teh shortage of doctors is not strictly a US thing. I know in Canada doctors often migrate to the US for a better pay, putting pressure on salaries.

Point 1 is not really different in many other countries.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#38

Post by ams6110 »

gabrielroth wrote: post #17
lionhearted wrote: post #7

Some reasons American medicine is very expensive: 1. Health insurance, but not treatment, is fully tax deductible. So if you buy your own penicillin, it's with after tax money, but if your insurance company buys it, it's pre-tax money. That's one of the reasons that health insurance is so widespred in America even for routine medicine like antibiotics and checkups. That's a major contributing factor in why the admini…

I agree with your overall point that the U.S. medical system suffers from overregulation. We could (and should) allow more primary care to be performed by, for instance, qualified nurses, RNs, and nurse-practitioners. As you point out, the existing guilds hate this idea. But your first point needs some correction. Health insurance is only tax-deductible when it's paid for by your employer. [EDIT: Just noticed you men…

If you are employed but your employer does not offer insurance, ask if they would pay for an individual plan out of payroll withholding. I've done this and it lets you buy insurance pre-tax even if your employer does not have a plan. This is a significant savings.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#39

Post by scott_s »

bengebre wrote: post #33
scott_s wrote: post #15

This is a terrible graph. It took me five minutes to figure out how everything is related. Data such as this is much more naturally plotted as an x-y scatter-plot. Thickness of the datapoints could indicate number of doctor visits. Instead, the graph eliminates the x-axis, but retains the space. Very strange choice.

Agreed. Here's the same data in a scatter plot (second chart down). Far, far easier to grasp. http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2009...

Thank you. As I suspected, I can immediately read the scatter plot. And the correlation that I wondered about is indeed there.

Re: Cost of Health Care By Country, as Compared to Life Expectancy

#40

Post by ams6110 »

chrischen wrote: post #6
cwan wrote: post #2

A response to the graphic suggests that while "this was evidence of an insane and inefficient healthcare system", "if [they] really wanted a chart that captures what’s wrong with America’s healthcare system, [they] should have gone to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services’ national health expenditures data website and downloaded the figures showing how rampant third-party payment has resulted in consumers di…

Also after a visit to a psychiatrist I found out they charge your insurance more, if you have it, than they would if you didn't. I'm not exactly sure what that was about, but if it was for sympathy, then it just shows that having a bureaucratic insurance company, private or government owned, would still have this problem of distancing the money from the patient. However I'm still a large proponent of not only life as…

What they charge your insurance, and what your insurance actually pays them, are often wildly different numbers.
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