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Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

glowforge.com

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Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#21

Post by danshapiro »

dahdum wrote: post #14

This is a great step in the right direction, but I wonder how difficult it may be to actually use considering they've removed so much of normal laser hardware. Anyone know how feasible it will be to control it? http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/20/glowforge-series-a/ How defensible is Glowforge’s laser cutting tech? Shapiro says the key innovation the team has come up with is moving a large number of functions out of the…

(Glowforge CEO/cofounder here)

Glowforge has enough horsepower to work offline if someone built the custom firmware, albeit without the features that differentiate it from a traditional CNC laser cutter/engraver. We started out the design with a minimal microcontroller but decided to bump up the capabilities of the onboard processor along the way.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#22

Post by logn »

gohrt wrote: post #18
logn wrote: post #12

Might want to consider Affero GPL. Without that, there's a possibility some competitor comes along, improves the software, puts it behind a cloud-only service, and never publishes the code.

That's... Glowforge's business model. The high-level control logic software is in the cloud.

That shouldn't make it Affero GPL incompatible as long as they make the code available. Regardless, if they own the copyright, they don't need to follow Affero GPL despite licensing it that way; it only applies to those who don't have copyright.

edit: ok it's only the firmware that's being open sourced. Still I think my original comment applies. Maybe a competitor improves code from the firmware and puts it behind the cloud.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#23

Post by wutwatt »

logn wrote: post #22
gohrt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's... Glowforge's business model. The high-level control logic software is in the cloud.

That shouldn't make it Affero GPL incompatible as long as they make the code available. Regardless, if they own the copyright, they don't need to follow Affero GPL despite licensing it that way; it only applies to those who don't have copyright. edit: ok it's only the firmware that's being open sourced. Still I think my original comment applies. Maybe a competitor improves code from the firmware and puts it behind th…

Considering the firmware is the code that directly interfaces with the hardware, how would it even be possible to move it to the cloud?

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#24

Post by userbinator »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #5

PS: no pentalobe screws either. This makes me happy :) Also, any chance you might demo one of these at Metrix on Capitol Hill sometime? I'd love to check it out in person without having to pay $2,000 first!

To be fair, other types of screw drives in the same socket-like family, e.g. Torx or hex, are a good choice since they are generally more resistant to stripping.

Then again, the type of fasteners is not at all an obstacle for someone wanting to hack around on a machine like this. The software is the far more important part.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#26

Post by logn »

wutwatt wrote: post #23
logn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That shouldn't make it Affero GPL incompatible as long as they make the code available. Regardless, if they own the copyright, they don't need to follow Affero GPL despite licensing it that way; it only applies to those who don't have copyright. edit: ok it's only the firmware that's being open sourced. Still I think my original comment applies. Maybe a competitor improves code from the firmware and puts it behind th…

Considering the firmware is the code that directly interfaces with the hardware, how would it even be possible to move it to the cloud?

You're probably right, but I don't see the harm in making firmware Affero GPL. For instance, intimate communication between two programs tends trigger GPL provisions. So there's an argument to be made that if a competitor improves the firmware for another device with a different cloud-powered backend, then that backend code must be released if the firmware is Affero GPL.

But my original thought was that maybe there's some useful logic in the firmware that's extracted to cloud. And on that point, it's pretty speculative.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#27

Post by jakobegger »

tmuir wrote: post #13

This doesn't change the huge red flag that should give prospective customers pause. The device will still operate only as long as Glowforge's servers stay up. If there are internet outages, or the company goes out of business, the device will no longer function as a laser cutter. The firmware is a very small piece of the puzzle. The cloud service is being portrayed as doing all of the heavy lifting. That's image proc…

Completely agree. But devices should work without a connection to a cloud, even if that cloud was open source. In this case, I see no reason for performing logic in the cloud, except that it makes DRM easier: You can't copy code you don't have.

You can continue to use proprietary hardware that is no longer supported by the manufacturer, as long as it is self contained. I think that SaaS is an unfortunate misstep, and making hardware depend on SaaS is even worse.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#28

Post by jakobegger »

Animats wrote: post #15
tmuir wrote: post #13

This doesn't change the huge red flag that should give prospective customers pause. The device will still operate only as long as Glowforge's servers stay up. If there are internet outages, or the company goes out of business, the device will no longer function as a laser cutter. The firmware is a very small piece of the puzzle. The cloud service is being portrayed as doing all of the heavy lifting. That's image proc…

"The firmware is a very small piece of the puzzle." Probably right. What's needed is source code escrow for the cloud service, so if Glowforge tanks, the code goes open source.

This won't help you if your internet connection is down.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#29

Post by radicalbyte »

dahdum wrote: post #14

This is a great step in the right direction, but I wonder how difficult it may be to actually use considering they've removed so much of normal laser hardware. Anyone know how feasible it will be to control it? http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/20/glowforge-series-a/ How defensible is Glowforge’s laser cutting tech? Shapiro says the key innovation the team has come up with is moving a large number of functions out of the…

3d printers (i.e. RepRap) do the same only the "work" is done by the user's PC.

Re: Thanks HN: Glowforge will open-source its firmware

#30

Post by tajen »

trishume wrote: post #3

Oh man, this is the second best thing I could have hoped for after their earlier announcement today. The best thing would have been also open sourcing their cloud software, but I can see how they'd be reluctant to do that given that it is a competitive advantage over other laser cutter manufacturers. I'm really really tempted to buy one now.

That would be a great move for VolksWagen too ;)
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