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Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

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Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#21
post #2

I thought this part was interesting: So what’s really going on? Something much simpler: asset managers are just managing much more money than they used to, because there’s much more capital in the markets than there once was. As recently as 1990, hedge funds managed a total of $38.9 billion. Today, it’s closer to $3 trillion. Mutual funds in the US had $1.6 trillion in assets in 1992. Today, it’s more than $16 trilli…

Here is some context for anyone else who is curious. A 1990 dollar is worth 1.84 dollars today because of inflation. There are about 3 times as many goods and services sold since 1990.(adjusted for inflation) [0] But real wealth has increased by 4.25x not adjusted for inflation[1]($20 trillion in 1990 to $85 trillion today) So it looks like there is 2.3x as much wealth, its valued 1.8x as highly, mutual funds manage…

And that wealth is nicely tied in the top tier of society with no chances of it trickling down to the masses. And they wonder why no one is buying anything or willing to pay for anything. It's like DMX said, stop being greedy.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#22
post #3
post #2

I thought this part was interesting: So what’s really going on? Something much simpler: asset managers are just managing much more money than they used to, because there’s much more capital in the markets than there once was. As recently as 1990, hedge funds managed a total of $38.9 billion. Today, it’s closer to $3 trillion. Mutual funds in the US had $1.6 trillion in assets in 1992. Today, it’s more than $16 trilli…

I find it hard to believe that there are 2 orders of magnitude more goods and services being bought and sold in the economy that 25 years ago. Rather, the complexity of financial instruments is the one that has gone up and up, but there's not that much more real wealth to back it up. If that is the case, the short answer would be "because of inflation".

You're mixing up assets and yearly output. You're also ignoring the fact that real assets that always existed may be shifting from other asset classes to hedge funds.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#23

Some good points in the article, but I am not sure I agree with all of its conclusions. CEO pay is going through the roof because of a ratcheting-up effect that has been going for years. The board brings a consultant to evaluate the CEOs pay. Said consultant is in tight with board, and is looking for their next consulting gig. Not a chance they are going to recommend a significant cut, or a performance plan that is a…

I would basically like to see stock options eliminated.

If you want shares of company, you need to buy it just like everybody else. With your taxed income.

This makes decisions to buy stocks much harder, and it will really show you're putting money where your mouth.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#24

Some good points in the article, but I am not sure I agree with all of its conclusions. CEO pay is going through the roof because of a ratcheting-up effect that has been going for years. The board brings a consultant to evaluate the CEOs pay. Said consultant is in tight with board, and is looking for their next consulting gig. Not a chance they are going to recommend a significant cut, or a performance plan that is a…

I think the popularly accepted notion of "market rates" basically leads to a social status ladder with the kind of jobs that "high class people" tend to do at the top and "low class work" at the bottom, and there might be a correlation with how much each person contributes to the bottom line of the company, but it is my belief that the within-groups variation is larger than the between-groups variation, which makes it basically a farce. The best support person is probably bringing in more revenue than the worst engineer while making less money.

This system endures because if you are in a higher class, there is no incentive to upset the popular notion of market rates. The top half of the pyramid tends to control pay, and why wouldn't they want a graduated scale based on status?

As engineers, we protect this status by releasing our tools when they are robust and easy enough for ourselves and other professional engineers but stop short of polishing our tools until an end-user could use them. We also maintain a complex set of cultural practices that need to be navigated in order to get access to additional layers of information and institutional knowledge. It's in our interest to prevent people from getting in, because under the Market Rates system, that's how you make more money.

CEOs are just another tier in that system. Like engineers, they keep their knowledge amongst themselves, and require you to work up the ladder in order to get the information and knowledge you need to access successive tiers.

I wish more people would spend more energy in actually trying to tease apart where profits are coming from and give compensation based on that. Or, even better: expect everyone to make a full-bodied human contribution and recognize that that's what is truly valuable, and no human is more valuable than any other.

I realize that's a little too woo-woo for many people, and I respect that. Maybe do the profit-assignment model then. But I really wish people would stop talking about "market rates" as if it's anything other than rent-seeking on a cultural scale.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#25

Some good points in the article, but I am not sure I agree with all of its conclusions. CEO pay is going through the roof because of a ratcheting-up effect that has been going for years. The board brings a consultant to evaluate the CEOs pay. Said consultant is in tight with board, and is looking for their next consulting gig. Not a chance they are going to recommend a significant cut, or a performance plan that is a…

There's no reason to limit that kind of obviously beneficial practice to just the CEO. Imagine how beneficial it would be to apply it to all the employees. Company is earning money? You get your paycheck. Company is losing money? Cough up.

Having to cough up is, I agree, excessive. But having a CEO's compensation tied to performance is the same as all the schmucks under him have to deal with. Only, while they're on the hook for delivering, he's on the hook for providing vision. So making it take 5 years to vest or similar, so the effects of his decisions can be seen, and he has to plan long term, seems sensible. In the same way that tying a worker bee's bonuses to the delivery of a project seems sensible.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#26
post #22
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that there are 2 orders of magnitude more goods and services being bought and sold in the economy that 25 years ago. Rather, the complexity of financial instruments is the one that has gone up and up, but there's not that much more real wealth to back it up. If that is the case, the short answer would be "because of inflation".

You're mixing up assets and yearly output. You're also ignoring the fact that real assets that always existed may be shifting from other asset classes to hedge funds.

I confess I am ignorant, so I don't know what you are talking about.

But, I do not see that many more hard assets (I mean physical... I am sure finance has a technical definition that has nothing to do with what the intuition of lay people like myself would think) created. It does not matter if there are trillions, quadrillions or quintillions of dollars; if they had to spend it all, they would end up owning the whole planet and still not run out of money.

So, it is just a matter of stroking egos and playing con games with using K-9 level math, but with much higher numbers. Ultimately, the only thing that much money is worth is to show that you have much more of it than the next person. It is all about social posturing (or if you are cynical, about manipulating other people by triggering emotional responses to the huge numbers involved).

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#27

The article omits some of the basic information needed for making sense of the data: What is the composition of the one-percent? I doubt that corporate executives make up a significant percentage of the super-wealthy, despite the attention the media pays to them. If that's true, then ipso facto changes in CEO compensation cannot account for most of the structural increase in inequality over the last half century. A m…

"I doubt that corporate executives make up a significant percentage of the super-wealthy, despite the attention the media pays to them. "

I'm afraid you're wrong on this point.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/10/one-percent-income-i...

Corporate executives account for almost 3rd of the top 1%, even if you exclude bankers. Throwing in bankers, and it's almost half.

I agree with you on that technology and automation are the main driver in increased leverage against workers. And sadly, government and regulations failed to counteract this leverage.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#28

Some good points in the article, but I am not sure I agree with all of its conclusions. CEO pay is going through the roof because of a ratcheting-up effect that has been going for years. The board brings a consultant to evaluate the CEOs pay. Said consultant is in tight with board, and is looking for their next consulting gig. Not a chance they are going to recommend a significant cut, or a performance plan that is a…

You believe you found a problem, but your objection was addressed and dismissed in an evidence-based fashion in TFA:

"The idea that high CEO pay is ultimately due to poor corporate governance is a commonplace [...] Yet as an explanation for why CEOs get paid so much more today than they once did, Stiglitz’s argument is unsatisfying. After all, back in the 1960s and 1970s, when CEOs were paid much less, corporate governance was, by any measure, considerably worse than it is today [...]

"Shareholders, meanwhile, had fewer rights and were less active. Since then, we’ve seen a host of reforms that have given shareholders more power and made boards more diverse and independent. If CEO compensation were primarily the result of bad corporate governance, these changes should have had at least some effect. They haven’t. In fact, CEO pay has continued to rise at a brisk rate."

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#29
"... the policies that shaped the US in the postwar era: high marginal tax rates on the rich and meaningful investment in public infrastructure, education, and technology."

This is interesting in the context of the current GOP race in the States, where the candidates continually speak about how America has become weak compared to what it was in the past. It seems these kinds of policies contributed to making it strong. But these kinds of policies are anathema in GOP circles now. Ironic.

Re: Why the Rich Are So Much Richer

#30
post #11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that there are 2 orders of magnitude more goods and services being bought and sold in the economy that 25 years ago. Rather, the complexity of financial instruments is the one that has gone up and up, but there's not that much more real wealth to back it up. If that is the case, the short answer would be "because of inflation".

If people have been making profits for the last 25 years and investing them, the amount of money in the markets will increase regardless of the instruments involved. Wealth is accumulating, but people don't really know what to do with it besides giving it to someone else to invest.

No, money is only numbers.

If you cut down a tree, cut it in boards, cut the boards and nail the pieces into a bunch of chairs, that is value added. It did create wealth.

Same, if you write a bunch of code that did not exist before, and the code is compiled and linked into a program that allows users to do stuff they could not do before (or could, but much more slowly) then there is value added. Wealth was created, even if there is no physical representation of that wealth... but it has real effects on the real world.

But when people just place bets, and double-down bets, and triple-dare-you bets on whether or not some random guy is going to write a program that might or might not go viral and get a billion or eyeballs... that's not wealth creation. That is just toying with numbers. You just produce noise in the economy so that the real prices of real stuff cannot be discovered anymore.

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