Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#131

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #80

mc32 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, true it can complement mass transit some, but then it's not the same as Copenhagen (their characterization) and becomes more Tokyo --which while they have very many bikes, is not all that bike friendly.

Actually most of the the trains (not the metro for some reason) in Copenhagen have lots of bike space and one can take one's bike for no charge. Lots of people use bikes and mass transit together.

Do mass transit companies charge for bikes? All the ones I've used have had it free.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#132

Post by natrius » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #116

natrius wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Towers surrounded by green space has been tried, with mostly negative results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier#Criticism Good urban space is mostly about how nice it feels to be on a street. You want a comfortable amount of walking space, destinations that are close together, and that's pretty much it. Surrounding buildings with parks makes walking harder and less pleasant. There's probably enough demand f…

>Towers surrounded by green space has been tried, with mostly negative results. on 2D surface the density can be done only by growing into the 3rd dimension. The only issue is how to do it. The ratio between height, footprint and total capacity i think reaches its worst value in the current style of development in the Valley (as a result of developers ripping best value in profit possible inside the municipally impos…

It does beat it. Those walls are full of people. Those people shop. That means there's more demand for nearby destinations. Walking in places where there's stuff nearby is better: it's more interesting, and you'll have a shorter walk to your destination since it's more likely to be close. Spreading people out—even with parks—is a negative. Parks belong in the middle of people, not surrounding them.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#133

Post by andy_boot » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

buckbova wrote: post #36

dkhenry wrote: post #14

I applaude this effort. I think many people discount how capable they are of making the switch to commuting via bike to work. Almost any commute less then 10 miles can easily be done via bike, and making a "safe" route to connect the metro area is a great first step. The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptab…

I don't want to show up to work sweaty. And I want the utility of a vehicle if my plans change. So I'll drive regardless.

I travel ~ 5 miles to work (takes about 30 minutes). I dont push myself to hard and I keep a spare t-shirt in the office. Arrive, swap t-shirt. Done.

If my plans change I leave my bike at work and arrive on mass transit the next day.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#134

Post by brlewis » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #84

gozo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think the situation is ridiculous, I also can't help thinking that if you're one of the most successful companies in the world and you can't get this done. It's either not that great of priority for you or you're doing something wrong.

Nope, it's something Google would really love to see. You have to remember that as the Goliath in the room, Google has to be somewhat careful about how hard they try to persuade local governments, as many residents already dislike how quickly they've grown and how that's contributed to rents going up and traffic getting worse. And Google has made a bunch of improvements themselves, like, I believe, the buffered bike…

as many residents already dislike...rents going up and traffic getting worse

Those sound like good reasons for local residents to support more nearby housing.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#135

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #128

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

Also, the idea is not to switch ALL driving to biking. That would be silly. The idea is to support and encourage biking where it makes sense. If you're doing short or medium-distance trips where you have limited cargo, biking can work very well, better than cars, both for the individual and for society at large. But only if we build our transportation infrastructure such that biking isn't dangerous.

But if the promotion of biking comes at the expensive of those who cannot bike (via transit/driving taxes etc) then the situation may occur where the disabled and elderly are in fact financing the biking lifestyle of the able-bodied. We are nowhere near this now, but if say 75% of people started commuting via bike the other 25 might wind up paying for the infrastructure. So there is both an infrastructure and taxbase problem to deal with before society at large can take up biking.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#136

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

gozo wrote: post #122

TulliusCicero wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's something Google would really love to see. You have to remember that as the Goliath in the room, Google has to be somewhat careful about how hard they try to persuade local governments, as many residents already dislike how quickly they've grown and how that's contributed to rents going up and traffic getting worse. And Google has made a bunch of improvements themselves, like, I believe, the buffered bike…

I was more thinking of compromising. Making deals is, at least to some extent, what business is about and I don't see the differences as insurmountable. Maybe Google don't play nice with others, but there's firms that do that too in exchange for money.

From what I can tell, Google plays as nice as humanly possible, there were just a lot of NIMBYs in the Mountain View city council until recently who hated the idea of getting housing in that area. But the NIMBYs lost badly last fall, and now the city actually is moving forward with housing in North Bayshore. I just wish they were moving forward with more (I think right now the plan is like ~5,000 units).

See: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2015/04/15/heres-whe...

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#137

Post by jkyle » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

> At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people.

That's a cultural difference, not a physical limitation. Cultures change.

> I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes?

I see this quite a bit. I plan on taking my daughter to school on my bike. I bike to work every day. I'm neither young, nor particularly fit. I see a very fair representation of 60+ commuters on my route.

> Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle?

I doubt many sick people ride too much. Fortunately, this use case is relatively rare. The overwhelming majority on the road are on the way to work, school, or run errands, not doctor visits.

> And what about the growing number of people who need to be brought places, who cannot drive themselves?

They would be very grateful that the roads are not congested with people making a 5 or 10m commute to work.

> There are a great many people with special needs/requirements who will never be able to move themselves safely by bike or any other vehicle. They and their carers should not be cut out of city planning, nor should they be confined to special communities.

I'm not sure where you're going with this line of reasoning. There's a growing number of people who cannot drive due to failing eye sight or injury. Does this mean we should eliminate all funding for roads all together? Is there some city design policy you're advocating?

It seems like you're somehow equivocating the creation of more options for short distance travel with elimination of highways all together.

More commuter options, e.g. bike, train, bus, etc. Only serve to alleviate congestion and make existing travel options more efficient.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#138

Post by praneshp » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:49 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #96

praneshp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wolfe has protected lanes all through, I used to bike on that. Same with Fremont/Sunnyvale-Saratoga, etc. When I rode a bike to work because I had to bike 500m on El Camino, which is 500m more than what I want to on that road. The alternate was quite longer. Edit: first para incorrect, I had "protected bike lanes" and "dedicated bike lanes" confused.

> Wolfe has protected lanes all through, I used to bike on that. I have no idea what you're talking about. I bike across Wolfe on Evelyn all the time and have seen no protected bike lanes on it. I just checked Street View on a handful of different parts of Wolfe and I see zero protected bike lanes, and it says the data is from this year. You're talking about Wolfe Rd that crosses Caltrain and goes next to Vallco righ…

Very sorry, I had "protected bike lanes" and "dedicated bike lanes" confused. Thanks!

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#139

Post by jkyle » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #98

dkhenry wrote: post #14

I applaude this effort. I think many people discount how capable they are of making the switch to commuting via bike to work. Almost any commute less then 10 miles can easily be done via bike, and making a "safe" route to connect the metro area is a great first step. The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptab…

And if you're over 30 miles from work, forget it unless you're in fairly good shape. My 45+ mile commute to Silicon Valley laughs at any attempt to get me on a bike. Better to support improved mass transit.

There's no single policy that solves the problem. It's a combination.

Building public transit extends the longer commute. Building out local cycling options extends the area that the public transit options can serve. It also relieves congestion on those same public transit options since some of those living 5 or 10m away are more likely to bike.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#140

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #129

TulliusCicero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. This is because our infrastructure sucks, so only young and fit people feel confident enough to bike around. In cities with high biking rates, that's not the case. Biking around for leisure is actually a stereotypical 'old person thing' in the Netherlands. > I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to…

It's more than the infrastructure, especially when it comes to schools. North America has a culture of selecting a child's schools from amongst many in a wide area. Not everyone sends their kids to a school a mile down the road, nor do all of their kids attend the same school at once. The getting hit is a problem. I don't know of any long-term riders in my city who haven't had violent confrontations with cars. There…

> It's more than the infrastructure, especially when it comes to schools. North America has a culture of selecting a child's schools from amongst many in a wide area. Not everyone sends their kids to a school a mile down the road,

Most people send their kids to public schools that are at least somewhat close by. A lot of what you're describing occurs when they select their housing: they explicitly pick an area that has good schools.

> nor do all of their kids attend the same school at once.

Well, most people don't have that many kids these days, plus with sufficiently good infrastructure, kids as young as 8 can bike themselves to school.

> The getting hit is a problem. I don't know of any long-term riders in my city who haven't had violent confrontations with cars. There is even a movement towards fitbits not for fitness but to use as evidence after the inevitable accident, evidence of how long it takes to recover.

Yeah, I'm thinking about getting a helmet cam. Would help for evidence, and I've also heard anecdotes that if drivers see the camera they drive more cautiously.