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Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

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Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#81

Post by throw_away »

jarcoal wrote: post #77
hyperion2010 wrote: post #62

Based on the photo at the bottom they are going to fail the same way that many other US cities have failed when trying install bike lanes. You MUST put the parked cars between moving traffic and bikes. If you do not bikers are going to get hit and doored and will obstruct turn lanes. Pretty much everywhere in Europe gets this right. Traffic -> parking -> bikes -> peds. How did the US get everything completely backwar…

This is happening in Portland, OR in select locations. Admittedly I haven't seen a lot of progress in the last year, but they converted a few of the streets up by PSU rather quickly, so maybe it's not a huge obstacle to overcome?

Seattle as well. It seems to cause consternation in drivers at first because they don't expect it and end up still parking next to the curb in the bike lanes.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#82

Post by buro9 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #71
mc32 wrote: post #64

To my mind, one of the main issues, in addition to protected bike lanes is the spread. Bike friendly cities are more compact. Commuting to work via bike is not a strenuous fifteen mile commute one way. They tend to be leisurely few mile rides. Now, not to say it's not possible, but a one to five mile bike ride is not the same as a ten to fifteen or more miles bike ride. Now, I do like Copenhagen's above ground bike r…

Sure, you're never going to get people who live 15 or 20 miles out biking the whole way to work, but there's lots of people who live You also have to keep in mind biking as a first-mile/last-mile complement to rail transit. If there's good bike paths to get to a transit station, that effectively extends the usable radius of the station. Already, lots of people bike to Caltrain and then bike from their stop to work (I…

> Sure, you're never going to get people who live 15 or 20 miles out biking the whole way to work

That's what I do every day in London. Why wouldn't you?

Myself and a lot of my friends choose our housing approx' 45 minutes to an hour away from the centre of London just to ensure we've got a good ride every day.

At a commuter average of 16mph, and an experienced cyclist average of 18/19mph means that 15 to 20 miles is precisely the distance I'd want to cycle.

All I'd want is a good shower, secure bike parking and a safe route to ride by.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#83

Post by Pxtl »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #62

Based on the photo at the bottom they are going to fail the same way that many other US cities have failed when trying install bike lanes. You MUST put the parked cars between moving traffic and bikes. If you do not bikers are going to get hit and doored and will obstruct turn lanes. Pretty much everywhere in Europe gets this right. Traffic -> parking -> bikes -> peds. How did the US get everything completely backwar…

That approach works in cities that have established massive cycling communities - the Montreals and Copenhagens.

The mid-step approach for North American cities is an extra-wide bike-lane clear of the door zone with dotted zones that require drivers to shift into the bike-lane if they want to turn right.

Basically, the bike lane is effectively a "bike lane and right-only-turn-lane". It's less protected than the parking-protected bike lane, but it avoids the right-hook problem.

This way drivers will always see the cyclist when they wish to go right.

In urban areas with established cycling communities where you have enough density that cyclists are expected? There you do the parking-protected lane. In that kind of environment, cyclists are common-enough that drivers expect them and know to look for them.

My city (Hamilton, Ontario) uses both, and I get a lot more right/left hooks from cars on the protected lane than I do on the right-turn-plus-cyclist lane. The protected lane is a great endgame and we need to get there, but step one is "take the whole right lane and make it cycling/right-turn-only". It takes a lot of space but it's a great way to begin.

The problem is the popular approach is completely half-assed: the glorified shoulder in the door-zone, with no information for drivers about pulling over into the lane to turn. That leaves both the right-hook open and the door-prize.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#84

Post by TulliusCicero »

gozo wrote: post #59
DannyBee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried, multiple times, and were explicitly rebuked http://www.mv-voice.com/print/story/2012/07/13/google-housin... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/technology/google-plans-ne... etc It comes up every few years.

While I think the situation is ridiculous, I also can't help thinking that if you're one of the most successful companies in the world and you can't get this done. It's either not that great of priority for you or you're doing something wrong.

Nope, it's something Google would really love to see. You have to remember that as the Goliath in the room, Google has to be somewhat careful about how hard they try to persuade local governments, as many residents already dislike how quickly they've grown and how that's contributed to rents going up and traffic getting worse.

And Google has made a bunch of improvements themselves, like, I believe, the buffered bike lanes on Shorebird and the multi-use path that extends west from Shorebird. But they can't just do whatever they want, no matter how rich they are. Just look at how their plans for development in North Bayshore got shot down by the city.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#85

Post by arnarbi »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #62

Based on the photo at the bottom they are going to fail the same way that many other US cities have failed when trying install bike lanes. You MUST put the parked cars between moving traffic and bikes. If you do not bikers are going to get hit and doored and will obstruct turn lanes. Pretty much everywhere in Europe gets this right. Traffic -> parking -> bikes -> peds. How did the US get everything completely backwar…

This, a million times (excuse the hyperbole). A low curb between the parking and bike path, and between bike path and pedestrian way is also very important. So is law enforcement that actively cites and tows cars that park on bike lanes, at least while building a culture around it.

Add to that that bike paths in Copenhagen have a totally different, much smoother asphalt. Since it is only used for bikes it lasts a long time. Cars can't drive on it because it is too slick and wouldn't stand up to the use. But it makes biking a lot easier than on rough asphalt covered in repairs, cracks ans potholes.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#86

Post by Pxtl »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #61
dkhenry wrote: post #14

I applaude this effort. I think many people discount how capable they are of making the switch to commuting via bike to work. Almost any commute less then 10 miles can easily be done via bike, and making a "safe" route to connect the metro area is a great first step. The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptab…

> The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptable amount of time, unless you actually make an effort at going fast. OR, unless you get an eBike. Which, while more expensive than a regular bike, are still vastly cheaper to purchase and operate than a car. A good pre-built eBike will probably sell in the $1000-200…

I think it's tragic that ebikes have become the domain of drunks and losers. We have the perfect solution to global warming and urban intensification right there, and no self-respecting person will use it because it's a tool of the underclass.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#87

Post by TulliusCicero »

buro9 wrote: post #82
TulliusCicero wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you're never going to get people who live 15 or 20 miles out biking the whole way to work, but there's lots of people who live You also have to keep in mind biking as a first-mile/last-mile complement to rail transit. If there's good bike paths to get to a transit station, that effectively extends the usable radius of the station. Already, lots of people bike to Caltrain and then bike from their stop to work (I…

> Sure, you're never going to get people who live 15 or 20 miles out biking the whole way to work That's what I do every day in London. Why wouldn't you? Myself and a lot of my friends choose our housing approx' 45 minutes to an hour away from the centre of London just to ensure we've got a good ride every day. At a commuter average of 16mph, and an experienced cyclist average of 18/19mph means that 15 to 20 miles is…

> That's what I do every day in London. Why wouldn't you?

Well, I personally might be willing to if the infrastructure was good enough (I'd probably get an eBike to speed things up), and other confident riders might. I just mean most people wouldn't, it's too far.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#88

Post by zyxley »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #61
dkhenry wrote: post #14

I applaude this effort. I think many people discount how capable they are of making the switch to commuting via bike to work. Almost any commute less then 10 miles can easily be done via bike, and making a "safe" route to connect the metro area is a great first step. The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptab…

> The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptable amount of time, unless you actually make an effort at going fast. OR, unless you get an eBike. Which, while more expensive than a regular bike, are still vastly cheaper to purchase and operate than a car. A good pre-built eBike will probably sell in the $1000-200…

Having used one for a while, the extra weight and general clumsiness compared to a normal bike becomes a huge discouragement to casual riding.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#89

Post by Pxtl »

mc32 wrote: post #64

To my mind, one of the main issues, in addition to protected bike lanes is the spread. Bike friendly cities are more compact. Commuting to work via bike is not a strenuous fifteen mile commute one way. They tend to be leisurely few mile rides. Now, not to say it's not possible, but a one to five mile bike ride is not the same as a ten to fifteen or more miles bike ride. Now, I do like Copenhagen's above ground bike r…

Copenhagen has actually been moving away from the bike box, moving the cyclist into something effectively a second sidewalk, moving at the same time the pedestrians move.

The bike-box is a good fit for on-road bike-lanes, but the second-crosswalk makes sense for separated ones.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#90

Post by walshemj »

stbtrax wrote: post #18
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #7

I just biked last evening from downtown San Jose to the southern vicinity of the Google campus. There are two main options: Central Expressway or something close and parallel to it, which I've declined. Or trails near the bay shore, which is what I chose. Bad choice. The trails are for the most part unpaved. Riding my sleek, rigid road bike on those things was torture. Never again. If those trails were paved, that wo…

This sounds like it could be easily solved by you riding a more suitable bike for commuting. It seems people in the US fetishize road bikes with drop bars and skinny tires as the 'best and fastest' kind of bike and then complain about how uncomfortable biking is. Even in the tour de france they don't use 23mm tires anymore. Going to a wider tire won't affect your speed adversely and to an extent will actually speed y…

Yep get a hard tail MTB and let the suspension take the strain.
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