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Block and Unsubscribe

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Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#91

Post by linkregister »

jebblue wrote: post #80

This looks great! I'd really love to see Google and Microsoft stop people from registering a new account to send spam to my accounts. If my humble Postfix/Spamassassin configuration can correctly identify them as spam; I'd expect Google and Microsoft to be able to do the same and stop those messages before they are sent, particularly when they have virus document attachments. I just got another one yesterday.

Gmail is also the biggest source of the spam in my inbox. I'm curious if Gmail directs Gmail-to-Gmail traffic through their excellent spam filter.

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#92

Post by bduerst »

cdnsteve wrote: post #39

Hilton hotels, can't unsubscribe because of account login forced. This is my new fix!

Or the Americorps.

They get around the FTC can-spam rules by saying the emails are "relevant" to you, so they don't include the unsubscribe.

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#93

Post by bduerst »

chubot wrote: post #50
cdnsteve wrote: post #39

Hilton hotels, can't unsubscribe because of account login forced. This is my new fix!

It's amazing how many unsubscribe links, which are mandated by law, are broken or flaky. I just "report spam" now when that happens, and it totally works. No regrets.

The problem is the law doesn't specify how well the unsubscribe (opt-outs) have to work.

You could literally leave unsubscribe instructions to snail mail your email address to some location, and as long as you stopped emailing them 10 days after getting the mail you're okay.

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#94

Post by smnrchrds »

bduerst wrote: post #93
chubot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many unsubscribe links, which are mandated by law, are broken or flaky. I just "report spam" now when that happens, and it totally works. No regrets.

The problem is the law doesn't specify how well the unsubscribe (opt-outs) have to work. You could literally leave unsubscribe instructions to snail mail your email address to some location, and as long as you stopped emailing them 10 days after getting the mail you're okay.

IANAL but that doesn't sound true.

"You can’t ... make the recipient take any step other than sending a reply email or visiting a single page on an Internet website as a condition for honoring an opt-out request." [1]

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can...

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#95

Post by silencio »

fpgaminer wrote: post #90

Speaking of spam, the wedding industry is the worst offender I've ever seen; worse than porn websites. I've had my email address web spider-able for many years, but never seen as much spam as I have while planning a wedding. These venues and vendors take your information and sell it 2 seconds later to anyone and everyone. One venue, for example, I emailed to set up a visit and meeting. This wasn't some web form, it w…

I used a spam-only email and a google voice number to sign up for all my wedding planning-related needs. It would be unbearable otherwise. It's been two years and I still get spam _every day_ despite unsubscribing (and when available, reporting them as unsolicited). Sadly I wish I could do the same for facebook - I still get wedding planning and egg donation ads.

I think a close second place goes to real estate agents. I'll inquire about something once and I end up with newsletters about seminars and houses I don't care for.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I've gotten any spam from porn websites I've signed up for, at least...

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#96

Post by [deleted] »

chubot wrote: post #50
cdnsteve wrote: post #39

Hilton hotels, can't unsubscribe because of account login forced. This is my new fix!

It's amazing how many unsubscribe links, which are mandated by law, are broken or flaky. I just "report spam" now when that happens, and it totally works. No regrets.

[deleted]

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#97

Post by dkersten »

fpgaminer wrote: post #90

Speaking of spam, the wedding industry is the worst offender I've ever seen; worse than porn websites. I've had my email address web spider-able for many years, but never seen as much spam as I have while planning a wedding. These venues and vendors take your information and sell it 2 seconds later to anyone and everyone. One venue, for example, I emailed to set up a visit and meeting. This wasn't some web form, it w…

Sounds like a good candidate for foo+wedding@gmail type addresses so you know exactly who did what and then not do business there...

Or at least, use a mailinator address.

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#98

Post by [deleted] »

eli wrote: post #26
hammock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAN-SPAM does not actually require one-click unsubscribe, but many senders include it anyway. From the primary source: "Give a return email address or another easy Internet-based way to allow people to communicate their choice [to opt-out] to you. You may create a menu to allow a recipient to opt out of certain types of messages, but you must include the option to stop all commercial messages from you. " https://www.…

You're both kind of right. A one-click unsubscribe is not required, but if you do use a web link for unsubscribe, the form can't require the user to enter any information beyond their email address. (Unsubscribe forms that require you to login are probably violating this law.) "Reply with the word REMOVE in the subject" is also a CAN-SPAM complaint unsubscribe method, though.

[deleted]

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#99

Post by hammock »

eli wrote: post #26
hammock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAN-SPAM does not actually require one-click unsubscribe, but many senders include it anyway. From the primary source: "Give a return email address or another easy Internet-based way to allow people to communicate their choice [to opt-out] to you. You may create a menu to allow a recipient to opt out of certain types of messages, but you must include the option to stop all commercial messages from you. " https://www.…

You're both kind of right. A one-click unsubscribe is not required, but if you do use a web link for unsubscribe, the form can't require the user to enter any information beyond their email address. (Unsubscribe forms that require you to login are probably violating this law.) "Reply with the word REMOVE in the subject" is also a CAN-SPAM complaint unsubscribe method, though.

>If you do use a web link for unsubscribe, the form can't require the user to enter any information beyond their email address.

I don't get that from my reading of the actual law or FTC guidance. Can you explain how you came to your conclusion?

Full text of CAN-SPAM: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-108s877enr/pdf/BILLS-108s...

Re: Block and Unsubscribe

#100

Post by timr »

linkregister wrote: post #81
chubot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many unsubscribe links, which are mandated by law, are broken or flaky. I just "report spam" now when that happens, and it totally works. No regrets.

Several people have responded to this recommending restraint with the "Spam" button. I disagree. I work for an email service provider; if our customers have a bad unsubscribe method, sometimes the only way to communicate that is to give them a higher complaint rate by clicking "Spam". The customer then comes to us to ask what's wrong, then we analyze their setup and tell them. In the short term, spam complaints hurt…

The problem is that people make up all sorts of ridiculous "laws" in their heads, and get extremely self-righteous when those invented, nonsensical rules are violated. Email service providers are exceedingly conservative, and will nearly always side with these people, even if they're lunatics.

For example: sending someone an unsolicited email is not spam. If it were, then nearly every person with an email account would be guilty of bulk spamming. Yet many people have no hesitation about clicking the spam button when they get a message from someone they don't know. Email providers are so scared of this that many officially require double-opt-in procedures in order to open an account. That's insane.

I don't mind it when someone emails me, personally, one time with an unsolicited business offer that is specific to me. It's unambiguously legal, and it's a good thing that we can send each other messages without having to pre-authorize the message. But when people send me the "follow up" on their last unsolicited message? Then they get the spam button and a block.

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