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Why we're leaving Heroku

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Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#51

Post by superuser2 »

13thLetter wrote: post #49
superuser2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What election outcome do you imagine is going to make this better?

Any election outcome where politicians who fail to oppose this, whether Democratic or Republican, are out of office and replaced with those of a different party, is the path to making this better. If you keep throwing the bums out -- and don't tell me that's impossible, no matter how many ads they buy they can't directly control what vote gets cast -- eventually you'll have bums in office who have a better sense of s…

You seem to imagine that the public overwhelmingly opposes surveillance but politicians are simply ignoring its wishes.

The public is clearly capable of voicing moral outrage: see gay marriage, abortion, and the Black Lives Matter movement. Where are the protests about surveillance? Why haven't the data-driven, opportunistic people who run campaigns identified this opportunity and seized it? Where are the people who care outside of HN and the rest of the internet libertarian community?

If you could find the votes to enact such a strategy in a way that politicians would understand they were being punished for surveillance and not just subject to the irrationality of the American people like they always are, wouldn't it be much simpler to rally those people around support for a candidate that will actually dismantle the national security apparatus?

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#52

Post by jon-wood »

grkvlt wrote: post #48
hapless wrote: post #6

Why are we back here every year, like clockwork? This is what, the 4th incarnation of this bill?

Because that's the way democratic legislatures work. If your law does not get approved, it means there's something in it that a majority does not like. Therefore there is an iterative process, actually in two parts, the first being amendments added as the bill is read, the second being re-submission of a modified version that it is hoped will be more appealling. The fact that something is submitted again and again wi…

My understanding of American politics is that often then amendments have very little to do with the law being enacted beyond their being the pay representatives get for voting the law in. I may be completely wrong on that, but if it is the case then I can't help feeling American politics is utterly corrupt.

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#53

Post by dmichulke »

From a company point of view, supporting CISA might well make sense in order to avoid the legal problems they are bound to have due to being coerced to cooperate with the government.

From a consumer point of view, it also makes sense to avoid "officially tapped" (read "US") services.

In the long run, it looks to me that gov't is laying the foundation of the demise of its own surveillance program because no one in his right mind would want his data in the US anymore, even less so if you're not an American company. Except for the German government, of course.

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#55

Post by belorn »

tptacek wrote: post #28

So far as we know†, CISA has virtually nothing to do with PRISM. CISA enables information sharing only in the context of "cyber attacks" (a term defined reasonably precisely in the bill). Essentially, what CISA says is that companies can run intrusion detection systems (like they already do) and then share the alerts with DHS. PRISM is, as far as we can tell from the leaks, a tasking system for FISA 702 warrants. FIS…

If the shared information is only for IDS alert sharing where any irrelevant information to cyber security is removed, then why do they need immunity from privacy and antitrust laws?

Surely companies in the US can today report to the police if someone gain illegal access to servers, do a DDOS, or sends fishing/malware to them. If the police then involve the FBI with the case while requesting relevant customer information, what laws would the company break from complying?

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#56

Post by greatthanks »

dmichulke wrote: post #53

From a company point of view, supporting CISA might well make sense in order to avoid the legal problems they are bound to have due to being coerced to cooperate with the government. From a consumer point of view, it also makes sense to avoid "officially tapped" (read "US") services. In the long run, it looks to me that gov't is laying the foundation of the demise of its own surveillance program because no one in his…

> Except for the German government, of course.

What do you mean?

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#57

Post by dmichulke »

greatthanks wrote: post #56
dmichulke wrote: post #53

From a company point of view, supporting CISA might well make sense in order to avoid the legal problems they are bound to have due to being coerced to cooperate with the government. From a consumer point of view, it also makes sense to avoid "officially tapped" (read "US") services. In the long run, it looks to me that gov't is laying the foundation of the demise of its own surveillance program because no one in his…

> Except for the German government, of course. What do you mean?

They don't care whether Germans' phone calls are tapped, the chancellor's phone is tapped or German companies are subject to industrial espionage.

Each of the above provably happened and the responses were (in descending order of their "strength"):

- the chancellor cancelling the phone contract with Verizon

- asking the US for an apology (didn't happen)

- asking the US to sign a no-spy treaty (which would be purely trust-based - no control possible and still the US refuses to sign it)

-- end of list --

Note the absence of lawsuits, demissions / resignations and "diplomatic tensions".

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#58

Post by kasia66 »

bdcravens wrote: post #54
Zaheer wrote: post #40

Anyone have experience with Heroku alternatives like Openshift Origin?

Cloud66 is a pretty close match to Heroku.

Cloud 66 provides full stack container management as a service in production, that offers Heroku-like functionality on any cloud provider or on your own server, http://www.cloud66.com/ (Disclaimer: I work at Cloud 66)

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#59

Post by skissane »

belorn wrote: post #55
tptacek wrote: post #28

So far as we know†, CISA has virtually nothing to do with PRISM. CISA enables information sharing only in the context of "cyber attacks" (a term defined reasonably precisely in the bill). Essentially, what CISA says is that companies can run intrusion detection systems (like they already do) and then share the alerts with DHS. PRISM is, as far as we can tell from the leaks, a tasking system for FISA 702 warrants. FIS…

If the shared information is only for IDS alert sharing where any irrelevant information to cyber security is removed, then why do they need immunity from privacy and antitrust laws? Surely companies in the US can today report to the police if someone gain illegal access to servers, do a DDOS, or sends fishing/malware to them. If the police then involve the FBI with the case while requesting relevant customer informa…

Surely the company can just go to the FBI/DHS/etc directly if they wish? IANAL, but if a company has information which it reasonably believes to be evidence of a crime, what court would find it illegal for them to volunteer it to the federal government?
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