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Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

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Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#61
post #58
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but this is just the benefit of any CDN, not just CloudFlare right? So I guess the selling point of CloudFlare is that it's like a normal CDN, plus it offers security services like DDOS protection? With a normal CDN, you don't change your DNS to point at their servers right? DNS points to your server, but you change your code to have and so forth pointing at their servers. To me that just seems a lot less invasiv…

I'd say that the historic Akamai model (from the last bubble) counts as "a normal CDN", and in that case, you do change your DNS to point straight at Akamai's DNS servers. For well over a decade now, `www.microsoft.com` has been a CNAME for something run by Akamai. My rough and uninformed impression is that for small-time users, where "small-time" includes the scale of Reddit, CloudFlare can do what Akamai does at a…

Oh really, I didn't know Akamai worked like that.

Do you know of any docs describing the algorithm Akamai or CloudFlare use to decide whether to hit your origin server? I'm a stickler for correctness but it seems to be pretty easy to get into the situation where your users aren't getting what you intended. HTTP cache headers are a mess.

To me it seems safer to code your application so the HTML points to JS/CSS/PNG with content hashes in the URL. Then you don't have any cache expiry issues -- nothing ever expires, but you control the assets exactly through your dynamic HTML.

I think it's important to have fast and reliable rollbacks. You can imagine some situation where private content or offensive text is accidentally included with some static asset... I would like some guarantee about when users stop seeing it (preferably as soon as the application is redeployed).

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#63
I'd love to see more transparency in the way Cloudflare, or CDNs in general, decide to cache or not cache your content. For example: Cloudflare publishes crawl frequencies in their pricing table but what do they actually do with that content? Push it to all their edges? I'd doubt that. I guess it's based on website traffic, your website pricing plan, ... but it seems quite arbitrary to me.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#64

Why Qualcomm? They make mobile chips. Are we going to see SoCs specially optimized for communicating with CloudFlare servers? That sounds like a potentially bad idea.

Both MS and QC have jointly invested in CDN mobile video streaming before like “DASH: Dynamic Adaptive Streaming for Better Mobile Video User Experience.”

Since Cloudflare has full China access the goal would be to take over the local streaming market I guess, sell Xiaomi or MS phones with streaming packages that likely MS will provide or lease out.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#65
post #61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that the historic Akamai model (from the last bubble) counts as "a normal CDN", and in that case, you do change your DNS to point straight at Akamai's DNS servers. For well over a decade now, `www.microsoft.com` has been a CNAME for something run by Akamai. My rough and uninformed impression is that for small-time users, where "small-time" includes the scale of Reddit, CloudFlare can do what Akamai does at a…

Oh really, I didn't know Akamai worked like that. Do you know of any docs describing the algorithm Akamai or CloudFlare use to decide whether to hit your origin server? I'm a stickler for correctness but it seems to be pretty easy to get into the situation where your users aren't getting what you intended. HTTP cache headers are a mess. To me it seems safer to code your application so the HTML points to JS/CSS/PNG wi…

It looks like they determine whether or not the content is static by the extension: https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200172516-W... "CloudFlare does not cache by MIME type at this time."

And most likely default to not caching if they are unable to determine.

For dynamic pages you can tell them which ones can be safely cached with PageRules (on paid plans): https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200172826-C...

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#66
post #33

If your website is well-coded and administered, does CloudFlare offer any performance benefit? (leaving aside security for now) If a page is static, then CloudFlare can cache it. But if you set your cache headers appropriately, and use efficient serving code like nginx, I imagine serving static content is pretty darn cheap. If a page is dynamic, then how can CloudFlare really speed it up? You don't want them serving…

I was using CloudFlare on a site that has a wide overseas following with a lot of visitors from different continents. I was getting a lot of complaints that the site was terribly slow. When I went back to just serving the site directly from it's server in Atlanta, the complaints ceased. Since then I have been hesitant to use it again.

[deleted]

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. CloudFlare is eating into the bottom third of Akamai's business. A skeptic on that might say that Akamai's is an enterprise, high-end solution, and that CloudFlare is for everything else - and so they don't really compete. My contention is that CloudFlare will climb upwards, taking ever great amounts of their business (as so often happens in tech).

Climbing up is a lot harder than climbing down.

I think that it usually is easier to climb up. Climbing down means you are fighting for lower margin customers, and have to execute flawlessly to turn a profit. It might be a bit dated by now, but The Innovators Dillema makes a strong case for the power of disruption from below.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#68

Why Qualcomm? They make mobile chips. Are we going to see SoCs specially optimized for communicating with CloudFlare servers? That sounds like a potentially bad idea.

Both MS and QC have jointly invested in CDN mobile video streaming before like “DASH: Dynamic Adaptive Streaming for Better Mobile Video User Experience.” Since Cloudflare has full China access the goal would be to take over the local streaming market I guess, sell Xiaomi or MS phones with streaming packages that likely MS will provide or lease out.

MS also has china access via Azure China

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#69
post #61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that the historic Akamai model (from the last bubble) counts as "a normal CDN", and in that case, you do change your DNS to point straight at Akamai's DNS servers. For well over a decade now, `www.microsoft.com` has been a CNAME for something run by Akamai. My rough and uninformed impression is that for small-time users, where "small-time" includes the scale of Reddit, CloudFlare can do what Akamai does at a…

Oh really, I didn't know Akamai worked like that. Do you know of any docs describing the algorithm Akamai or CloudFlare use to decide whether to hit your origin server? I'm a stickler for correctness but it seems to be pretty easy to get into the situation where your users aren't getting what you intended. HTTP cache headers are a mess. To me it seems safer to code your application so the HTML points to JS/CSS/PNG wi…

Akamai has an API that you can hit to request that they purge some content of yours from their cache:

https://api.ccu.akamai.com/ccu/v2/docs/

Re: Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and Baidu Announce Joint Investment in CloudFlare

#70

Silly question: How does CloudFlare make any money? Any random can put any site behind their (very fully featured) free services and get free CDN, free antimalware, and free $other_services, with no seeming limits as to the amount of traffic you get. This has no impact on the target site. There are no ads or any other such. Their enterprise products only offer a few more features at a massive cost hike. How are the b…

The consumer freemium model is probably negligible money in the grand scheme of things. Here is an article about how Cloudflare developed a keyless SSL tool to bring Goldman Sachs on as a client: http://www.wired.com/2014/09/new-internet-security-tool-guar... Downtime is expensive for large companies, including financial institutions. A DDOS that takes down the site could cause a dip in the stock price. CloudFlare te…

Wouldn't any large enterprise client like this already have a CDN or DDOS-proof hosting provider?
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