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The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

prpl.works

21–30 of 140 posts

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#21
post #15

I thought to myself: "This looks like a good time to stock up on SDR equipment, in case this ever goes through." And then I realized this is exactly the same thing gun enthusiasts thought when they though Obama would limit their guns/bullets, and stocked up on them, and I thought it was silly. I guess we're a lot more similar than I would have thought, made me think a little bit more about it. I'm reminded a bit of t…

Specifically, SDR kits are usually rated as professional and test equipment, which are not certified by the FCC. The OP is about consumer products and other FCC-certified products.

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#22

This title is kind of click-bait - they aren't prohibiting operating systems, they _might_ be prohibiting installation of operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that allow software defined radio - that is, transceivers that can be tweaked easily by software. That is not at all the same thing as banning an operating system. This is already present insofar as hardware requirements in radios…

> they aren't prohibiting operating systems, they _might_ be prohibiting installation of operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that ... "prohibit installation" means to ban. "operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that ..." means specific operating systems. So, the FCC "might ban specific operating systems"; you've paraphrased what the title says.

Everything is an "operating system" these days.

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they aren't prohibiting operating systems, they _might_ be prohibiting installation of operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that ... "prohibit installation" means to ban. "operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that ..." means specific operating systems. So, the FCC "might ban specific operating systems"; you've paraphrased what the title says.

I disagree - saying they might ban operating systems, with no context, leaves out the fact they're only talking about modular radio systems or software defined radio systems. Edit: also to be clear, as another comment pointed out, this doesn't have any impact on test/kit equipment that is not compliant with FCC regulations anyway and requires a separate license to use - this is targeting consumer equipment. So I stil…

The context is more or less obvious from "FCC". We know from those three letters that it's not about, say, banning Ubuntu from your PC.

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#24
A driver is not an OS, notwithstanding the legitimate and well-founded objections to driver signing as it affects open source operating systems...but I'm willing to firgive a little hyperbole in the pursuit of attention. On the other hand:

I firmly and respectfully disagree. The user always knows their life better than anyone else. Linux exists because users could modify their device. OpenWrt exists because users could modify their device. CyanogenMod exists because users could modify their device. Ultimately, a software community which believe users are fundamentally unqualified is a broken community. I trust users to take responsibility for their own lives.

Sure, philosophically I feel the same way. But as soon as I begin broadcasting, I'm not just living my life any more, I'm affecting yours, too. Probably not by much, but possibly by a lot - what if my actions impact your ability to live your life?

Externalities are an economic fact. The article itself discusses ways that ignorant or indifferent radio users could cause trouble for others. Pre-emptive regulation of the sort the FCC engages in is annoying, but what other mechanism is proposed to prevent spectrum abuse? We saw from the Marriott Hotel case that where economic incentives exist, some actors will opt to defect and collect an economic rent.

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#25
post #15

I thought to myself: "This looks like a good time to stock up on SDR equipment, in case this ever goes through." And then I realized this is exactly the same thing gun enthusiasts thought when they though Obama would limit their guns/bullets, and stocked up on them, and I thought it was silly. I guess we're a lot more similar than I would have thought, made me think a little bit more about it. I'm reminded a bit of t…

FWIW, I don't think there's a lot of regret among gun enthusiasts who stocked up. They like guns, they like ammo, and they found a reason to buy in bulk.

The people I know are happy they did.

I can imagine being pretty happy in a year or two having stocked up on SDR gear. :-)

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree - saying they might ban operating systems, with no context, leaves out the fact they're only talking about modular radio systems or software defined radio systems. Edit: also to be clear, as another comment pointed out, this doesn't have any impact on test/kit equipment that is not compliant with FCC regulations anyway and requires a separate license to use - this is targeting consumer equipment. So I stil…

The context is more or less obvious from "FCC". We know from those three letters that it's not about, say, banning Ubuntu from your PC.

But the FCC regulates a great deal of equipment, and this is only targeting a very specific subset of that equipment - not all of it. I was initially pretty concerned as I'm a Ham radio operator, but this really does not concern me overly much now that it's clear it's:

A) SDR/Modular only B) Consumer only

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#27
post #15

I thought to myself: "This looks like a good time to stock up on SDR equipment, in case this ever goes through." And then I realized this is exactly the same thing gun enthusiasts thought when they though Obama would limit their guns/bullets, and stocked up on them, and I thought it was silly. I guess we're a lot more similar than I would have thought, made me think a little bit more about it. I'm reminded a bit of t…

Just a nitpick, but the poem wouldn't make much sense if the first line was "first they came for me" :-)

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#28
post #3

What I don't get it is, why make the software enforce certain frequencies? If the hardware should never be able to broadcast on a certain frequency, why not build the hardware with that limitation?

In the past that's exactly what they've tried to do, and this usually ends up clobbering the law-abiding users in the process. Most of these bands are pretty close to each other - the 10M HF band is right next to the CB band, the 2M band is right next to the emergency services bands and pretty close to both the aviation bands and the weather radio bands, and so on. Gear from one will pretty much just work on the nearby bands, absent some other protection. You can do filtering, but it's physically pretty hard to make an amplifier work ideally within its band and then immediately stop working when you take it outside its band.

So the FCC's response in the past was to make it illegal to produce anything that could go from [unlicensed power level] up to [licensed power level] on demand. If you wanted to make a 10M amp that could hit say 150W, you had to require at least 75W drive power because that was beyond what a legal CB radio could deliver. Kinda sucked for anyone who couldn't afford a radio with 100W of drive, and I think they eventually let off a bit because they were losing the battle to cheap Chinese junk sold over the internet. They're very proactive about enforcement, they'll get you sooner or later, but until then it's better for everyone if you're not spewing harmonics everywhere.

There are radios and amps that use a frequency analyzer to automatically cut out when operated out of their intended bands, they're just very expensive compared to most of the gear that's out there. And a lot of the Software Defined Radios and so on are actually wideband radios that are physically capable of operating across a bunch of bands. These are very concerning for the FCC, and you pretty much cannot limit these physically, it has to be built into the firmware or the controlling software. Hence the article.

There's also just different rules for different license classes. As a radio amateur, I can also use 2.4 GHz (13cm band) under my license, and I am allowed to operate with up to 1500 to 2500 watts EIRP depending on mode. That is of course subject to lots of limitations including "minimum necessary power", but there's nothing physically stopping you from taking a 13cm amp sold for radio amateurs and running wifi over it. Same frequency, how does the radio know?

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#29
post #21
post #15

I thought to myself: "This looks like a good time to stock up on SDR equipment, in case this ever goes through." And then I realized this is exactly the same thing gun enthusiasts thought when they though Obama would limit their guns/bullets, and stocked up on them, and I thought it was silly. I guess we're a lot more similar than I would have thought, made me think a little bit more about it. I'm reminded a bit of t…

Specifically, SDR kits are usually rated as professional and test equipment, which are not certified by the FCC. The OP is about consumer products and other FCC-certified products.

>SDR kits are usually rated as professional and test equipment

The cheap ones aren't even that. They're repurposed/upcycled television DTV receivers.

Re: The FCC Might Ban Specific Operating Systems

#30

This title is kind of click-bait - they aren't prohibiting operating systems, they _might_ be prohibiting installation of operating systems that are not approved on certain types of devices that allow software defined radio - that is, transceivers that can be tweaked easily by software. That is not at all the same thing as banning an operating system. This is already present insofar as hardware requirements in radios…

radios cannot be permitted to listen on frequencies reserved for cell phones

Is this true ? I've never heard of the FCC restricting receivers before. You don't need a license to buy or operate a HAM receiver.

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