Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight • Hacker News Board

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#311

Post by robotresearcher » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:33 PM UTC

blumkvist wrote: post #306

robotresearcher wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely true, and is also true of clean drinking water, sewage treatment and security of the person. We can choose to make these things available by our common efforts.

And who is going to be in charge of them? Will they not become corrupt? That's a rhetorical question, of course. When they do get corrupt what do we do, since it's the same guys with the guns and court houses?

Is there clean drinking water in your house? Did you pay insane amounts for it? Do you live in fear of oppression by the water company?

There are some very messed-up public works, but most of the time it works pretty well.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#312

Post by jmsdnns » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

francoisdevlin wrote: post #285

jmsdnns wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was done slowly, it could be an extremely effective strategy. Not too different from what Berkshire did with See's Candies. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/13/warren-buff...

Except... 1. No one dies if they don't get See's Candies 2. There are other chocolates out there

I didn't mean to suggest what he's doing is good. Just that it's a common business strategy and this person applied it in a horrible way.

Most people don't want to get rich slowly, as Charlie Munger says

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#313

Post by JTon » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

bedhead wrote: post #55

I am a fund manager and I have followed Martin Shkreli since his prior company, Retrophin, went public about two years ago. Simply put, Martin is a sociopathic criminal with a well-established, and consistent track record of deceit, recklessness, failure, and just plain old stupidity. But he is also hyper-aggressive. He is currently living in Switzerland, and it's my understanding that he fled the country in order to…

Your post tickled my curiosity. So I went to Wikipedia... and found this: http://imgur.com/lNpPWkP

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#314

Post by dennisgorelik » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:40 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #165

bedhead wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree that many people are looking at this business plan with envy. CEO's of "real" pharma companies know this business model is possible, but no one bothers with it. I think this is partly out of ethical standards (yes, CEO's, even pharma CEO's, can possess this) and partly out of knowing the inevitable backlash makes it not worth it for the business and their personal reputation. Again, while KV isn't a…

Finding ways to make generics super-profitable is definitely common. Turing is, arguably, the ugliest of the bunch, but there's more than enough ugly to go around. Your mythical "honest and kindly pharma CEO who wants nothing but for everyone to have cheap drugs" doesn't exist. Its Shkreli's all the way down: http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/06/allow-big-pharma-rip-us/ Bill Moyers: For example, last February, before its…

> pay the makers of generic drugs to delay their cheaper versions

Is it even legal? Sounds like monopoly-forming conspiracy to me.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#315

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:53 PM UTC

cmiles74 wrote: post #85

bedhead wrote: post #55

I am a fund manager and I have followed Martin Shkreli since his prior company, Retrophin, went public about two years ago. Simply put, Martin is a sociopathic criminal with a well-established, and consistent track record of deceit, recklessness, failure, and just plain old stupidity. But he is also hyper-aggressive. He is currently living in Switzerland, and it's my understanding that he fled the country in order to…

It seems to me that the overall result would be other companies start manufacturing the generic and sell the drug for maybe 20% less than Martin and over time the price drops back down towards where it once started. In the meantime, this company either goes bankrupt or is sold off. Or the government passes a law capping how much you can raise the price of a generic drug over so many years.

The strategy is to prevent other companies from manufacturing the generic by withholding supply from them so as to prevent them demonstrating bioequivalence. ISTM that the least-onerous regulatory solution would be to require manufacturers to provide supply at cost to FDA on demand for testing purposes.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#316

Post by mason240 » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:56 PM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #311

blumkvist wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who is going to be in charge of them? Will they not become corrupt? That's a rhetorical question, of course. When they do get corrupt what do we do, since it's the same guys with the guns and court houses?

Is there clean drinking water in your house? Did you pay insane amounts for it? Do you live in fear of oppression by the water company? There are some very messed-up public works, but most of the time it works pretty well.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I can't fathom how you can think running a public utility like water treatment and capital intensive research and development are in anyway comparable to each other.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#317

Post by JDiculous » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 6:59 PM UTC

ken47 wrote: post #245

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an economic and policy perspective, unfortunately, Turing is doing everything right. Makena is probably not a great comparison as its used for prevent early birth, which is something of an edge case for certain pregnant women, versus Daraprim, which is a more common drug. It is the only FDA approved drug for Toxoplasmosis. According to wikipedia: Up to half of the world's population is infected with toxoplasmosi…

From an economic and policy perspective, unfortunately, Turing is doing everything right. This is an economically misguided point of view. Free market decision-making can only be argued to be optimal in a free market system, which pharma is not, a distinction which the decision-makers certainly were intelligent enough to understand. Free market mechanisms either need to be put in place, or we need to stop allowing it…

The problem is that the economic system that not only allows this, but incentivizes it. Witch hunting isn't going to fix a fundamentally broken economic system. We need to admit that our system is not optimal, and fix it. Rational people are always going to act in their own best self-interest.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#318

Post by JulianMorrison » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #60

jakobdabo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same greed makes the drug industry to develop drugs which treat the illness rather than cure it. Regular drug users are much better for them than one-time users.

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Last year Gilead sold a drug that cures hepatitis C. Cures! The error in your thinking is that curing a patient results in less money than just chronically treating one. Not so!

While I have no love for the incentive structure for drug companies, I agree that conspiracies about them deliberately prolonging sickness are nonsense.

Imagine the kudos that would go to the researchers and the company that cured the common cold! And a pill for that would sell well enough to offset the losses from palliative lozenges, decongestants, etc. And it's not like they are short of other pills to sell.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#319

Post by rev_bird » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

JTon wrote: post #313

bedhead wrote: post #55

I am a fund manager and I have followed Martin Shkreli since his prior company, Retrophin, went public about two years ago. Simply put, Martin is a sociopathic criminal with a well-established, and consistent track record of deceit, recklessness, failure, and just plain old stupidity. But he is also hyper-aggressive. He is currently living in Switzerland, and it's my understanding that he fled the country in order to…

Your post tickled my curiosity. So I went to Wikipedia... and found this: http://imgur.com/lNpPWkP

I was less surprised by the vandalism than I was by how tame it was.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#320

Post by thescriptkiddie » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 7:06 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #241

johansch wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this one of those very few cases were nationalisation of a company is called for?

Why do poor business decisions make a case for nationalization?

Price gouging on life-saving pharmaceuticals is not a poor business decision. It's an excellent business decision. But it is also a crime against humanity.