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Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

nytimes.com

251–260 of 461 posts

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#251
This is a bit odd, there are two prior submissions of this same article (including my own) that didn't get de-dupped: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10250576 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10248459

Also, points count differences seem to support the hypothesis that there are optimal times of the day to submit to HN.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formulating the generics isn't the hard part (well, beyond the chemistry but that's straightforward enough - once you know something can be done, it's just a matter of time and effort). Once a generics company does that, they have to perform bioequivalence testing. It makes a lot of sense, because generics can have different inactive ingredients (fillers, etc.) that can still affect the patient. But in order to perfo…

So perhaps in these cases we should place the blame on certain shortcomings of the FTC's regulation rather than the companies who take advantage of the loopholes. I don't agree with the practices of this company, but if the loopholes exist, I'm not sure we have much reason to expect companies to behave any way but capitalistically.

Not american but yeah the law enforcement agencies should be more careful about these loophole or at least try to fix them as quickly as possible once they are found out. Maybe there are some other incentives (sometimes) at the top.

But none of that excuses what these guys (I don't have any reasonable word to describe them). Its like saying there was this loophole that makes this kind of murder (not self defense btw.) not punishable by law so I went ahead and killed 50 people. If people dies from these diseases I don't see how it's not fair to put these guys in some murder trail. I wish we had some reliable tools to detect lies and CEOs and PR guys like these had to pass the test before such claims and actions based off such claims (we are trying to make a better drug) could be taken.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#254
post #55

I am a fund manager and I have followed Martin Shkreli since his prior company, Retrophin, went public about two years ago. Simply put, Martin is a sociopathic criminal with a well-established, and consistent track record of deceit, recklessness, failure, and just plain old stupidity. But he is also hyper-aggressive. He is currently living in Switzerland, and it's my understanding that he fled the country in order to…

As Derek Lowe said recently, biopharma will not be dull as long as Martin Shkreli’s around

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2015/08/19/bio...

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#255
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an economic and policy perspective, unfortunately, Turing is doing everything right. Makena is probably not a great comparison as its used for prevent early birth, which is something of an edge case for certain pregnant women, versus Daraprim, which is a more common drug. It is the only FDA approved drug for Toxoplasmosis. According to wikipedia: Up to half of the world's population is infected with toxoplasmosi…

From an economic and policy perspective, unfortunately, Turing is doing everything right. This is an economically misguided point of view. Free market decision-making can only be argued to be optimal in a free market system, which pharma is not, a distinction which the decision-makers certainly were intelligent enough to understand. Free market mechanisms either need to be put in place, or we need to stop allowing it…

I'm not sure I understand the point about economics being about utility vs. wealth. If its free market then aren't people free to choose between utility vs. wealth and in such case pure free market don't have much defense against a few sciopaths trampling all over the not so sociopaths?

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#256
post #55

I am a fund manager and I have followed Martin Shkreli since his prior company, Retrophin, went public about two years ago. Simply put, Martin is a sociopathic criminal with a well-established, and consistent track record of deceit, recklessness, failure, and just plain old stupidity. But he is also hyper-aggressive. He is currently living in Switzerland, and it's my understanding that he fled the country in order to…

If this was done slowly, it could be an extremely effective strategy. Not too different from what Berkshire did with See's Candies.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/13/warren-buff...

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#257
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just allow importing drugs from other markets that have good enough quality standards - like the EU or Canada I guess. Problem solved.

But who provides the quality standards oversight? The drug is apparently produced in India. What if pills were shipped to the US and it was found after the fact that many batches contained unacceptable levels of iron? Who to blame? I'm sure Canada has decent oversight, but who wants to say that the solution is no direct US agency oversight, and that we want a "Pharmaceuticals-NAFTA"? It seems funding oversight with a…

We import all kinds of stuff from all over the world and enforce quality standards very well. The current situation is more like protectionism than consumer protection in many cases.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more ethically questionable: spending billions in capital developing drugs to save lives, and trying to make money off that, or spending billions of capital on endeavors like entertainment services that don't save lives at all?

>spending billions in capital developing drugs to save lives Loaded question. This assumes they are doing it to save lives instead of doing it to make money. And doing it to make money, given the patent system, is the less ethical option when others would do it to save lives but are now forbidden to do such.

Who cares why they're doing it--the point is that their money-making endeavors have the effect of saving lives, while other companies spend tons of capital on things that do not have the effect of saving lives.

And who is out there willing to spend billions developing new drugs while giving them away for free? The patent system certainly isn't stopping those people.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#259
post #170
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, that actually sounds like it's already illegal from general business regulation. As in, no new laws needed, get the ones we have enforced. Wouldn't be surprised you can already pierce the corporate veil without new laws too. This is not specifically in reply to the parent, but the point fits here: I'd observe that calling for more regulation or even outright nationalization to fix this, when it's…

Looks like the DOJ is very probably looking into antitrust violations in the generic drug industry: http://www.troutmansanders.com/the-dojs-generic-drug-antitru... We'll see if any of this survives our current President's tenure, though.

It seems unlikely that the DOJ will continue this into the next administration, it has become increasingly politicized throughout this one (and arguably over the last 40 years or even longer). Perhaps every agency faces an unavoidable politicization if it survives long enough, and since they are never abolished or fundamentally restructured, they will all eventually fall victim to it.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#260
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who provides the quality standards oversight? The drug is apparently produced in India. What if pills were shipped to the US and it was found after the fact that many batches contained unacceptable levels of iron? Who to blame? I'm sure Canada has decent oversight, but who wants to say that the solution is no direct US agency oversight, and that we want a "Pharmaceuticals-NAFTA"? It seems funding oversight with a…

We import all kinds of stuff from all over the world and enforce quality standards very well. The current situation is more like protectionism than consumer protection in many cases.

While broadly true, this is an area where counterfeiting is easier, detection is difficult, enforcement is harder, and legitimate manufacturing is often expensive.

In other words, exactly the conditions to encourage all kinds of abuses.

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