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Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

nytimes.com

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Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#191

Post by refurb »

markus2012 wrote: post #161
thinkcontext wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many rankings that put the US healthcare system as a whole behind its economic peer countries whilst spending far more per capita. Example: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/20... Excluding 15% of the population from all but emergency care pretty much guarantees this outcome.

This. I used to buy breakfast from a small food place. The 21-ish cashier lady always gave me a nice 'good morning' and a smile. She wasn't there one morning and I asked where she was. She died - something to do with her kidneys and she didn't have health insurance. Now the US gets to statistically ignore her death and claim it provides excellent health care to its citizens?

Why would the US ignore her death? Your comment makes no sense.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#192

Post by Lawtonfogle »

bedhead wrote: post #159
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an economic and policy perspective, unfortunately, Turing is doing everything right. Makena is probably not a great comparison as its used for prevent early birth, which is something of an edge case for certain pregnant women, versus Daraprim, which is a more common drug. It is the only FDA approved drug for Toxoplasmosis. According to wikipedia: Up to half of the world's population is infected with toxoplasmosi…

I would disagree that many people are looking at this business plan with envy. CEO's of "real" pharma companies know this business model is possible, but no one bothers with it. I think this is partly out of ethical standards (yes, CEO's, even pharma CEO's, can possess this) and partly out of knowing the inevitable backlash makes it not worth it for the business and their personal reputation. Again, while KV isn't a…

>I think this is partly out of ethical standards (yes, CEO's, even pharma CEO's, can possess this)

Not buying it. I'll buy the fallout argument, as that will hurt them monetarily, but I'm not guying them have any moral or ethical concerns with those being hurt by high drug prices.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#193

Post by dperfect »

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #174
cmiles74 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the overall result would be other companies start manufacturing the generic and sell the drug for maybe 20% less than Martin and over time the price drops back down towards where it once started. In the meantime, this company either goes bankrupt or is sold off. Or the government passes a law capping how much you can raise the price of a generic drug over so many years.

That's exactly what would happen, but the generics companies can't procure sufficient samples due to the changes in how Daraprim is distributed. So long as Shkreli is able to control distribution tightly enough, there's no worry about a generic coming onto the market.

I don't completely understand how they can effectively prevent generics companies from producing it (even through tightly controlled distribution), but if that's the case, I believe that should be the story here as opposed to the bit about raising prices.

Under normal market conditions, either the demand and price will naturally incentivize generics to enter the market (even at high costs), or this is really not much of a story because the total addressable market is so small that price * demand won't significantly move the needle in the books of insurance companies who will be paying for it. If total addressable market is significant and the producers can manipulate the market in ways outside of patents to abuse monopoly power, then that's the misdeed (in my opinion), not the raising of prices.

In other words, with very few exceptions it's futile to blame a company for their prices. On the other hand, if unscrupulous manipulation of a market is the culprit for unreasonable prices, that's where we should demand/enforce a higher standard.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#194

Post by Lawtonfogle »

mtgx wrote: post #103
jakobegger wrote: post #28

It should be pretty obvious by now that the pharma sector is completely out of control. Again and again I read about the rising cost of healthcare, how we can't afford to support an aging society, and now even "solved" problems are used to squeeze even more profits from those who can afford the least. And I'm not talking about the US, this is a world wide problem. Instead of making international treaties that make en…

Yet people are still quick to say "...but what about Big Pharma?" when there's a discussion about abolishing patents. I don't know if patents should be abolished completely, but if there's a discussion about a serious patent reform, we should stop considering pharmaceuticals as some kind of exception, and apply the new reform equally to everyone, instead of allowing exceptions for Big Pharma, or worse, watering down…

Patent reform is just going to be a way for those in power to promote regulatory capture. The only reform worth anything would be abolishment.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#195

Post by aianus »

trymas wrote: post #79

It's so range inducing it's horrible. The guy is pure evil. Though, my question is, what does it mean "to acquire/own/have the rights to the drug"? If the drug is 62 years old, knowledge about it should be in public domain and why can't some other company start making it?

Because of government red tape and regulations and delays around creating a 'new' drug even if it's molecularly identical to an existing off-patent approved drug.

If a quick run in the mass spectrometer was sufficient to start selling a generic, this crap wouldn't happen. I don't understand the knee-jerk calls for more regulation when it's clear that regulation is what's allowing this unethical business model to work.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#196

Post by Retric »

ctlby wrote: post #175
Retric wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace drug with aircraft and few people will say the military should be private.

You can believe that the government should provision military defense and still find laughable the claim that one "deserves" a sophisticated fighter jet flying overhead.

Having a credible level of deturance might not need cutting edge aircraft, but things have progressed past the point where pointed sticks are sufficent so some form of flight capability is required.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#197

Post by unmole »

eitally wrote: post #84
ck2 wrote: post #63

Thread on reddit says it is 2 cents per pill in India and entire treatment costs $1 https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/3lp6kr/

India has aggressively forced international pharmas to offer exceptionally low domestic pricing ... if they refuse, the alternative is that the Indian government authorizes generics, regardless of the patent status of the commercial drug. India also has a "last mile" problem with medical care. It's still too common for villagers to slip through the cracks and not receive regular diagnosis or treatment.

> Indian government authorizes generics, regardless of the patent status

That is only for drugs considered 'life saving' though.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#198

Post by hiram112 »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #9

Drug creation needs to be nationalized, 100% tax funded all the way from researcher to trials to manufacture, and the drugs sold at cost thereafter. And the pharmaceuticals industry needs to just go away.

From what I've heard, the cost of research is already heavily nationalized via the NIH and other grants.

In typical US fashion, though, the profits are privatized.

Actually, I don't believe letting the government take over would be good in the long run. The most direct fix would be to immediately revoke the various laws that disallow American citizens and companies from buying approved drugs in foreign markets at massively reduced prices and then reselling them in the US.

Big pharma has for years now been slashing their US workforce and moving to third world countries. Another example of labor getting to compete in the global market, while capital enjoys privileged advantages.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#199

Post by aianus »

danmaz74 wrote: post #152
paulmd wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to produce a generic, you need to prove that it has the same efficacy as the namebrand drug. It's not the same thing as a full FDA trial, it's small-scale and you're basically just proving that you're ending up with the same active ingredient and that it has the same effects in patients (i.e. you're not doing something differently in the formulation/delivery that's causing problems or impeding the efficacy o…

Thanks for the explanation. But this rule - ie, not allowing the competitor to buy the original product for testing - is incredibly anti-competitive and should be banned.

Or, you know, you could remove the stupid regulations around generics. I trust Bayer is capable of copying some crappy 60-year-old drug without the FDA taking 6 months to approve it.

Re: Drug Goes from $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

#200

Post by Lawtonfogle »

clavalle wrote: post #130
if_by_whisky wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution would stop innovation in any industry

Because innovation cannot exist outside a purely market driven system?

Improving things just to improve them and research just for curiosity's sake are foreign concepts to those running the markets.
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