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A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

nytimes.com

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Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#111

Post by tuna-piano »

refurb wrote: post #74
asdfologist wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent's getting downvoted to oblivion, but I dare say the argument makes sense. In the long run, more lives will be saved if there's a greater economic incentive for entrepreneurs to make new and better drugs. Or to put it another way - the government can instantly save many lives in the short run by forcing all drug companies and hospitals to make all their products and services $1 each, but this would have dis…

There may be a better system, but I haven't seen it. Look at some of the new cancer companies (CAR-T technology). These companies are raising hundreds of millions of dollars in Series A. Why? Because investors think they'll be a handsome return on the other end.

Yep, exactly.

When the entire economy is market-based, if you lower profit incentives in one industry, capital/talent/resources will simply flow into other industries.

Maybe we should cap doctors pay at $15 an hour too. But I suspect when you are on the operating table, you want to pay top dollar for the person about to cut you open.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#112

Post by dang »

dijit wrote: post #50
tuna-piano wrote: post #43

The thing that I think many people are ignoring is the positive effect that high drug prices (& profits) leads to in the economy. Economic resources such as entrepeneurs, capital, equipment and scientists follow the money. If there's money to be made on Wall street, resources go there. If there's money to be made in mobile apps, resources go there. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the price being so high now sh…

No offence to you, but you're so capitalist it's to the detriment of human health and you should be ashamed. I'm asthmatic, My life can cease in a pretty painful way if I'm denied access to drugs- my illness is an easily preventable one, so why should I die gasping? You're right I'll pay anything to keep living.. I'll literally starve before I stop paying for my medication. But why would you wish that upon me? Becaus…

> you should be ashamed

I know this is an internet convention of sorts, but please don't do it here, even when someone advocates bad policy. HN comments should be free of personal swipes, especially otherwise decent comments like this one.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#113

Post by dang »

zo1 wrote: post #63

I kept writing, scrapping and re-writing responses to you. Trying different ideas/methods/examples, perhaps to hopefully enlighten you to alternative ways of thinking about this topic. And then I realized that it probably won't work. You seem to be under the impression that this individual seeks ill towards you. That he values monetary profit over your well-being in some sort of immoral way, evil way. You've been hea…

This comment is little more than an extended personal attack. Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News.

We detached it from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10249056 and marked it off-topic.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#114

Post by [deleted] »

cjlars wrote: post #30
ikeboy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior. What does bad PR mean for them? Nobody's going to refuse treatment if they would otherwise afford it.

It impacts him at the margin. More eyeballs on articles like this one mean a faster market response and more patients doing a little extra digging to find fair treatment for their ailment. He also wouldn't want this article to come up as the top result for his name. A shady business reputation makes it harder to find investors, partners and employees.

[deleted]

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#115

Post by angdis »

cjlars wrote: post #30
ikeboy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior. What does bad PR mean for them? Nobody's going to refuse treatment if they would otherwise afford it.

It impacts him at the margin. More eyeballs on articles like this one mean a faster market response and more patients doing a little extra digging to find fair treatment for their ailment. He also wouldn't want this article to come up as the top result for his name. A shady business reputation makes it harder to find investors, partners and employees.

Yes, in the short-term, being up written up in the NY times for what they are is the best way to deal with most egregious unethical behavior from scum like Turing Pharmaceuticals. It will be interesting to see if the prices goes back down as a result of this exposure.

Sadly, that can't prevent pharma companies from arbitrarily jacking up prices less dramatically on many other drugs and going "under the radar" as far as public outrage is concerned. For that, you need careful and assiduous regulation. But in an era where people run companies that do real things like a hedge fund, I am doubtful things will get better anytime soon.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#116

Post by acveilleux »

oconnor663 wrote: post #39
cjlars wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“This is still one of the smallest pharmaceutical products in the world” What Turing is doing is exploiting the natural monopoly that has formed for this drug. I was able to find only two global producers of this drug after a quick search (Turing and a generic Alibaba listing), which if true means Turing is the only game in town for a lot of supply channels. In addition, the medical market is relatively unable to ad…

This monopoly doesn't sound very natural.

When someone first dredged up the rights for this drug, it sold 667,000$ worth of pills every year for 1$ each.

GlaxoSmithKline produced it and it just wasn't worth the trouble to discontinue or to muck about with. No one would make a generic because it would be more expensive to enter the market than profits could be realized.

So the monopoly is natural because no one with any good sense would consider competing.

That GSK sold the rights to this drug (and quite possibly other similar drugs) to some other company in a rational bid to monetize inefficient assets and increase shareholder value has upset that monopoly but Turing just needs to exploit the market until the generics show up. That and the price they paid explain Turing's strategy.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#117

Post by jgoewert »

ikeboy wrote: post #105
toomuchtodo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the free market doesn't work when there's inelastic demand, or when supply chain disruptions cost people their life.

If you think the government making the drug is a viable solution, there's no need to set prices. If you think the government making the drug is not a viable solution, then you shouldn't set prices for fear of the drug being cancelled. Could you point out the flaw here?

The government (FDA in this case) doesn't make the medication. They just get someone else to make it. They tell company X "You F'ed Up. Give us all your documentation and we will take it to company Y to make."

I'm trying to remember the name of the company that this happened to. It was like 8 years ago and I think I remember them being a cardiac arrest medical. Anyhow, the company CEO flat out refused the FDA regulators demands that they get their manufacturing process up to standards. The FDA went to another manufacturer (I believe Johnson and Johnson) and asked if they would make the medication and they accepted. The FDA then shut down the prior company.

When lives are impacted, the FDA doesn't mess around. They put CEOs in prison for the crappy decisions they make.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#118

Post by acveilleux »

tim333 wrote: post #64

>Doxycycline, an antibiotic, went from $20 a bottle in October 2013 to $1,849 by April 2014, according to the two lawmakers wft? I'm kind of confused. Wikipedia says "Doxycycline is available as a generic medicine and is not very expensive. The wholesale cost is between 0.01 and 0.04 USD per pill." Why on earth are they paying $1,849 a bottle? Maybe they are only allowed to buy of certain suppliers with FDA licences…

The rules for pharmaceutics manufacturing in the western world are very strict.

Any competent university lab could turn up a few Kg of pyrimethamine. You need a GMP compliant FDA-approved facility to make it for medical use.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#119

Post by ikeboy »

angdis wrote: post #115
cjlars wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It impacts him at the margin. More eyeballs on articles like this one mean a faster market response and more patients doing a little extra digging to find fair treatment for their ailment. He also wouldn't want this article to come up as the top result for his name. A shady business reputation makes it harder to find investors, partners and employees.

Yes, in the short-term, being up written up in the NY times for what they are is the best way to deal with most egregious unethical behavior from scum like Turing Pharmaceuticals. It will be interesting to see if the prices goes back down as a result of this exposure. Sadly, that can't prevent pharma companies from arbitrarily jacking up prices less dramatically on many other drugs and going "under the radar" as far…

For that, you need careful and assiduous regulation.

Do you have any particular proposal to solve the problem? Saying "regulate!" doesn't help unless you can provide specifics.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#120

Post by ikeboy »

jgoewert wrote: post #117
ikeboy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the government making the drug is a viable solution, there's no need to set prices. If you think the government making the drug is not a viable solution, then you shouldn't set prices for fear of the drug being cancelled. Could you point out the flaw here?

The government (FDA in this case) doesn't make the medication. They just get someone else to make it. They tell company X "You F'ed Up. Give us all your documentation and we will take it to company Y to make." I'm trying to remember the name of the company that this happened to. It was like 8 years ago and I think I remember them being a cardiac arrest medical. Anyhow, the company CEO flat out refused the FDA regulat…

There's a big difference between

"not having a manufacturing process up to standards" and "raising the price insurance companies have to pay".

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