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A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

nytimes.com

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Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#71

Post by icebraining »

learc83 wrote: post #42
ikeboy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of a human life is not infinite, at least not in health budgets. Insurance companies set a non-infinite value to decide what procedures to cover. In theory, you could calculate the exact value provided by this drug (under the QALY model).

The value of a human life to the individual who's life it belongs cannot be calculated in economic terms (at least for most people) because it is unbounded, i.e., there is not a price that most people will accept for their life. The economic value of a human life to society can be calculated. Under your theory a fair method to price life saving drugs doesn't exist. The person getting the drugs will effectively extrac…

The value of a human life to the individual who's life it belongs cannot be calculated in economic terms (at least for most people) because it is unbounded, i.e., there is not a price that most people will accept for their life.

Not really true, I'm afraid. People killing themselves (or allowing others to kill them) to ensure a payout to their families happens with some regularity.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#72

Post by refurb »

bhickey wrote: post #54
richdougherty wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to restrict competition is to stop competitors getting samples of your drug. Without samples of the original, it's impossible to prove a generic is equivalent. Here's an example where patient safety rules were used to stop competitors getting samples: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/09/co-...

> Without samples of the original, it's impossible to prove a generic is equivalent. I know we're in FDA-land where logic doesn't rule, but this beggars belief. This is similar to the nonsense by which HFA inhalers knocking generic CFC inhalers off the market. Any competent organic chemist can tell you if you've got pyrimethamine or not. This isn't some exotic chemical. There's published spectra ( http://webbook.nist…

It's not just having the right drug, it's having the right pharmacokinetics. You need original samples so you can see how the drug dissolves, enters the bloodstream and is metabolized.

The FDA has a requirement that generics are bioequivalent, not just the same drug.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#73

Post by kgwgk »

bhickey wrote: post #54
richdougherty wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to restrict competition is to stop competitors getting samples of your drug. Without samples of the original, it's impossible to prove a generic is equivalent. Here's an example where patient safety rules were used to stop competitors getting samples: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/09/co-...

> Without samples of the original, it's impossible to prove a generic is equivalent. I know we're in FDA-land where logic doesn't rule, but this beggars belief. This is similar to the nonsense by which HFA inhalers knocking generic CFC inhalers off the market. Any competent organic chemist can tell you if you've got pyrimethamine or not. This isn't some exotic chemical. There's published spectra ( http://webbook.nist…

"One way scientists demonstrate bioequivalence is to measure the time it takes the generic drug to reach the bloodstream and its concentration in the bloodstream in 24 to 36 healthy, normal volunteers. This gives them the rate and extent of absorption-or bioavailability-of the generic drug, which they then compare to that of the pioneer drug. The generic version must deliver the same amount of active ingredients into a patient's bloodstream in the same amount of time as the pioneer drug."

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/Bioterrorisma...

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#74

Post by refurb »

asdfologist wrote: post #60
tuna-piano wrote: post #43

The thing that I think many people are ignoring is the positive effect that high drug prices (& profits) leads to in the economy. Economic resources such as entrepeneurs, capital, equipment and scientists follow the money. If there's money to be made on Wall street, resources go there. If there's money to be made in mobile apps, resources go there. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the price being so high now sh…

The parent's getting downvoted to oblivion, but I dare say the argument makes sense. In the long run, more lives will be saved if there's a greater economic incentive for entrepreneurs to make new and better drugs. Or to put it another way - the government can instantly save many lives in the short run by forcing all drug companies and hospitals to make all their products and services $1 each, but this would have dis…

There may be a better system, but I haven't seen it.

Look at some of the new cancer companies (CAR-T technology). These companies are raising hundreds of millions of dollars in Series A. Why? Because investors think they'll be a handsome return on the other end.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#75

Post by refurb »

adwf wrote: post #40
ikeboy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how we can fix this systematically without making bigger problems. Should a government agency set prices? What if the company stops making the drug, then? The price is high because no other companies are willing to make it for lower, after all. Note that the drug in question is not under patent. I don't think you'd advocate for literally forcing the company to make it and sell it for a specific price.…

Government setting prices works for the NHS in the UK. If a drug is too expensive it just doesn't get authorised as a treatment and we go with something else. The collective bargaining power of the nationalised system effectively forces the pharmaceutical companies to the table everytime. They'd rather sell for some profit than no profit. It's only because the pharma companies can deal with consumers in the US on an…

It's only because the pharma companies can deal with consumers in the US on an individual basis that you guys get screwed over so much on your pricing.

That's not true at all. The biggest private insurance companies in the US are what? 30-40M lives? That's bigger than Canada. They routinely negotiate for lower drug prices.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#77

Post by kbenson »

zo1 wrote: post #63

I kept writing, scrapping and re-writing responses to you. Trying different ideas/methods/examples, perhaps to hopefully enlighten you to alternative ways of thinking about this topic. And then I realized that it probably won't work. You seem to be under the impression that this individual seeks ill towards you. That he values monetary profit over your well-being in some sort of immoral way, evil way. You've been hea…

Wow, in a single comment you've managed to do the following:

- Cast the parent commentor as unaware of alternative ways of thinking of this subject, implying the only reason then could hold their belief is because they cannot or will not think about this subject in other ways.

- Imply that the parent is incapable of of viewing this subject in a rational manner because they are too emotionally, morally or ethically invested in a point of view that is influenced by others. So apparently it's not the parent's fault. They've just been manipulated into not being able to form their own opinions.

- Imply that the parent in currently inadequate in their knowledge of what it takes to raise a child.

I have a lot of not very nice things I would like to say at this point, but that would be counter-productive to the point of this comment, so I'll distill it to this: Don't do this. You have attacked someone in a very personal way, even if it's marginally hidden behind wishing them well. Not only is it against the rules here, but it's just plain a horrible thing to do, and doesn't reflect well on you at all.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

randyrand wrote: post #70
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should a government agency set prices? Yes. > What if the company stops making the drug, then? A non-profit government sponsored entity manufactures the drug at cost.

The only way to properly do this would then be to have the government become the only R&D and pharma company. Doable. But I think you put too much faith in the government. The government is a natural monopoly itself. If they're doing a shitty job you don't get any other options.

> Doable. But I think you put too much faith in the government. The government is a natural monopoly itself. If they're doing a shitty job you don't get any other options.

Disagree. A government can be held accountable. Some asshole ex-hedge fund manager attempting to corner the market on a drug can't be.

Re: A Huge Overnight Increase in a Drug’s Price Raises Protests

#80

Post by gaadd33 »

zo1 wrote: post #63

I kept writing, scrapping and re-writing responses to you. Trying different ideas/methods/examples, perhaps to hopefully enlighten you to alternative ways of thinking about this topic. And then I realized that it probably won't work. You seem to be under the impression that this individual seeks ill towards you. That he values monetary profit over your well-being in some sort of immoral way, evil way. You've been hea…

Is it even possible to be in a position to take care of someone's every need? Ignoring the realities of unknown diseases without cures, unless you have dynastic wealth it seems unlikely that you can, with 100% probability, have the resources to take care of every scenario. It doesn't take much imagination to come up with a large number of scenarios.
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