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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

nytimes.com

321–330 of 341 posts

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#321
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you are satirical. How would fining the end users solve the problem?

Because no one will ever buy a VW again, and so other carmakers will take note.

Would anyone buy any vehicle ever again, given the possibility of a 20k liability for something out of their control?

This position has not been thought through.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those self-diagnosing features can be defeated by trivial circuits. A 555 timer for a downstream O2 sensor, a 4N4001 diode and a couple resistors for an EGR vacuum sensor hack, and several others. I have had cars in the past that OBD2 reported as operating correctly, that easily passed smog/inspections, that probably weren't operating as the EPA intended.

But how many people with older cars have the initiative and the the capability to do that. It's a small fraction of a small fraction of a small fraction of vehicle owners. Chasing a problem like that around is a waste of everyon'e time and money. Environmental regulatory agencies really need to do a better job considering the 90/10 or 80/20 rule (the last 20% of whatever you're optimizing will consume 80% of the reso…

They should still allow people to request testing of actual emissions, upon request.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason California is so strict is because LA used to be synonymous with lethal levels of smog. Used to be.

I find it difficult to understand how failing a car with clean emissions levels, thereby forcing it out of the state, contributes to cleaning up smog.

You are willfully ignoring the vastly more significant average/mode case to focus on the effect of edge cases.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#324
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I despise overly loud pipes - like, you have to scream loud. But,Ive been riding a bike a lot as well. Way too quiet exhausts (like EU is constantly pushing on us) are dangerous - ive seen it myself - my dad with a louder exhaust passes with no issues and I, silently, get cut off and nearly run off the road by a guy that assumes that mirrors are for pussies. It happened quite a few times already.

If the other driver didn't use a mirror, how is a bike more threatened than a car?

If you are in a modern EU/Korean/Japanese car, you would have to be rather unlucky or going fast if anything was to happen to you. Also,it takes a lot more to actually drive you off the road - you can literally push back.

On a motorbike all it takes is a bump,and, you have to be lucky not to end up in hospital.

Btw in no way im for window rattling. However, EURO4/5, I would not be surprised if my vacuum cleaner was louder

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was true for much of the 2000s, but the new platform used from ~2009 onwards (the one implicated here) has been perfectly fine. The 2009-2016 Golfs get consistent Very Good/Good reliability ratings from Consumer Reports. They're still not Honda, but they're now better than average.

VW have a much better reputation than Honda in Europe.

The most common complaint is that repairs for German cars are much more expensive, but this may be an artifact of the supply chain for parts and not apply to Europe.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#326
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how many people with older cars have the initiative and the the capability to do that. It's a small fraction of a small fraction of a small fraction of vehicle owners. Chasing a problem like that around is a waste of everyon'e time and money. Environmental regulatory agencies really need to do a better job considering the 90/10 or 80/20 rule (the last 20% of whatever you're optimizing will consume 80% of the reso…

They should still allow people to request testing of actual emissions , upon request.

At what expense/frequency, though? If it's just to cover the ocassional (unmodified) car that can't be made to report as "Ready and OK" per OBD2, it's just easier to use the existing repair exemptions process. (Spend a certain amount on repairs and get another cycle of inspection passage.)

If it's to cover modified cars, those are a trickier situation. It's easy for some to game the system so that it "passes" on the magic day and then fails the other 364 or 729 days in the cycle when it's actually being driven.

In either case, it seems like the expense of operating and staffing gas sensing stations, rolling road dynos, etc. Probably better to just turn a blind eye to that case as well.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#327
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycles should be illegal.

Well, that's just wrong, motorbikes are an important part of any transportation mix. When the answer is 'ban it' there is something wrong.

Wait, why are motorcycles important? They're inherently less efficient, netting out roughly the same environmental impact --- assuming modern motorcycles! --- but without the ability to carry passengers or significant amounts of cargo.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#328
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's just wrong, motorbikes are an important part of any transportation mix. When the answer is 'ban it' there is something wrong.

Wait, why are motorcycles important? They're inherently less efficient, netting out roughly the same environmental impact --- assuming modern motorcycles! --- but without the ability to carry passengers or significant amounts of cargo.

There are tens of thousands of donor organ recipients who wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for motorcycles.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#329
How anybody at VW would think it's a good idea? Sure, it's a clever trick, but when they get caught - and it's assured they will - they'd probably get it pretty hard. I mean, Toyota got hit for $1.2 bln for problems that were mostly imaginary[1], how much this would cost?

[1] http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/justice-departme...

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#330
post #250

There is also quite some lies "optimism" in the EU regarding stated mpg L/100km from the manufacturer and real world measured mpg. Is it the same software that the car companies use during EU drive cycle tests vs real world production cars? If you were a cheating manufacturer you would tune your car lean for the tests and more sporty with slightly higher consumption for the real world production run.

It's hard to believe anyone still fooled by VW's claim of 94.2 MPG (1.6 TDI BlueMotion Golf, manual, extra urban). There's been a lot of press about stated fuel figures not matching real world consumption (and it's even mention/stated briefly in adverts now I think)

In my own experience with that model, driving about 500 miles, 50-55 is a valid expectation

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