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Most of our CS students suck at CS

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21–30 of 34 posts

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#21

I know this is amateur question, but I am taking my intro to programming class this quarter, and we are learning with Python(and pseudo-code, if that counts) am I doomed to being a crappy programmer? I was notorious for being a Lego addict when i was a kid, and i am taking the classes because i need a formal education on programming, so i would like to think I am not part of this group, but am I getting off on the wr…

No, python is great to learn on.

What school do you go to?

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To veer on a tangent -- my previous roommate went to Digipen, and he didn't find it rigorous at all. He felt it was dumbed down in the technical aspects. Has that changed in the past few years?

I don't know, I'm just going off of hearsay and the projects I've seen come out of Digipen. It's definitely less rigorous than a university program, and they're obviously exploiting the "I want to make video games!" motivation of a lot of kids. But I do think that the general model is pretty good, even if Digipen isn't an ideal example of its implementation.

We are in total agreement.

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a particularly difficult subset of problem solving.

... an algorithm is a series of steps to solve a problem. If he is good at problem solving, he should have no problem with algorithms. Now, I think a lot of people are bad at remembering every algorithm they are taught in a class. Unless you use it a few times, it's not likely you will be able to implement it off the top of your head, but that is what the internet and all those useful CS books are for.

I mean it's difficult to discover non-trivial algorithms on your own.

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#24
post #21

I know this is amateur question, but I am taking my intro to programming class this quarter, and we are learning with Python(and pseudo-code, if that counts) am I doomed to being a crappy programmer? I was notorious for being a Lego addict when i was a kid, and i am taking the classes because i need a formal education on programming, so i would like to think I am not part of this group, but am I getting off on the wr…

No, python is great to learn on. What school do you go to?

MIT recently changed their curriculum from Scheme to Python.

If it's good enough for MIT...

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#25
post #21

I know this is amateur question, but I am taking my intro to programming class this quarter, and we are learning with Python(and pseudo-code, if that counts) am I doomed to being a crappy programmer? I was notorious for being a Lego addict when i was a kid, and i am taking the classes because i need a formal education on programming, so i would like to think I am not part of this group, but am I getting off on the wr…

No, python is great to learn on. What school do you go to?

Eastern Washington. Heard of it?

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#26

I know this is amateur question, but I am taking my intro to programming class this quarter, and we are learning with Python(and pseudo-code, if that counts) am I doomed to being a crappy programmer? I was notorious for being a Lego addict when i was a kid, and i am taking the classes because i need a formal education on programming, so i would like to think I am not part of this group, but am I getting off on the wr…

You can get a good education at almost any school in almost any language. Like much of your life, it depends entirely on what you put into it. If you only do enough to satisfy the core requirements of the class, and you are not motivated to explore the field on your own, then you're going to end up being a "crappy programmer."

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#27
post #12

Most CS students don't care about CS, and there's nothing wrong with that. Our society shouldn't look down on trade schools so much. There's too much of an importance placed on the prestige of graduating from a university, making everyone feel pressured to go to a university. These kids are wasting their time (and their parents' money) if they don't care about the material and are never going to use the material anyw…

While I agree that trade schools are a Good Thing ™, I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with your assertion that theory of computation and programming language semantics and implementation are somehow unimportant for any student of programming, whether vocational or theoretical.

True, it may not be terribly illuminating for a game programmer to rigorously prove historical theorems in computability or complexity theory. However, understanding the practical importance of big-O notation, the equivalence of any Turing-complete language, (as well as the lambda calculus, partially-recursive functions, etc.) and compiler design will all be of massive benefit when they're looking to actually distinguish themselves from the rest of the assembly-line game coders.

Overall, though, +1 on the idea of a solid two-year "Computer Programming" degree. Leave CS as a truly academic realm, and give those who are just looking for a solid white-collar career path a respectable path there.

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#28
post #7

As much as I'd like to say I could do low-level CS, I'm honestly not that good at algorithms. Quick sort? I'm good at problem solving, which is what I think matters. Before I knew better, I used to laugh at those people who found careers doing boring stuff with corporate applications (databases, etc.). The best part of my job is creating something from scratch - a blank screen of an IDE (when not fixing issues). And…

As much as I'd like to say I could do low-level CS, I'm honestly not that good at algorithms. Quick sort? I'm good at problem solving, which is what I think matters. What's the difference between algorithms and problem solving?

Scenario: Consultant on-site. Application not working (Oracle, app server, and/or network issues). Training scheduled for next day. Diagnose/Fix the problem during the teleconference or else..

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#29
post #27
post #12

Most CS students don't care about CS, and there's nothing wrong with that. Our society shouldn't look down on trade schools so much. There's too much of an importance placed on the prestige of graduating from a university, making everyone feel pressured to go to a university. These kids are wasting their time (and their parents' money) if they don't care about the material and are never going to use the material anyw…

While I agree that trade schools are a Good Thing ™, I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with your assertion that theory of computation and programming language semantics and implementation are somehow unimportant for any student of programming, whether vocational or theoretical. True, it may not be terribly illuminating for a game programmer to rigorously prove historical theorems in computability or c…

I do think that Big-O notation and computational cost should be covered in a practical and intuitive way, but I'm not convinced of the utility of teaching Turing computability, programming language theory, or compiler design. You say that this "will all be of massive benefit when they're looking to actually distinguish themselves from the rest of the assembly-line game coders", but I think that anyone who wanted to get that real depth of knowledge and set themselves apart from the crowd should get a CS degree and (most importantly) continue learning on their own. What I'm envisioning for the trade school is purely what you describe as "a solid white-collar career path". I think there's a lot of people who are looking for a career that pays well and that they enjoy, but aren't interested in becoming an expert in their field, or making their career also their hobby.

Re: Most of our CS students suck at CS

#30
Remember when people actually posted constructive compsci/programming articles that covered a wide variety of topics? Neither do I.

This current obsession with programming supremacy and geek dick waving is absolutely pointless.

If Universities started churning out uber hackers that were "20x more efficient" than last years model all these guys would start crying about how they can't get a decent paying job.

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