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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

nytimes.com

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Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#241

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #91
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #20

I don't understand how California detected this. The one time I had to take my 2010 Jetta turbo diesel for a smog check, the inspection was ENTIRELY visual. The inspector did not insert a probe into the tailpipe. He did plug the test rig into the OBD-II port under the steering column and turn the key to the accessory position (presumably to electronically capture the VIN), but that's it. I even asked him at the end i…

California's CARB is the gestapo of car emissions. If anyone has the motivation, expertise, and evil disposition to detect this, it's the state of California. I've never lived in a state like this. Bi-yearly tailpipe sniffs and visual inspections. Even if your car's emissions are cleaner than their ridiculous requirements, they'll still fail your car if it has parts on it that are not stock. I ended up having to sell…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#242

Post by brobinson »

vesrah wrote: post #229
brobinson wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some models of the Yamaha R1 have an intentional flat spot in their fuel maps which happens to be right at the spot where testing happens, too. In a similar vein, the Aprilia RSV4 kind of cheats at noise testing: in neutral, there is a baffle which flips down to dampen the exhaust note a bit. :)

Almost all supersport bikes coming into the US utilize both of these strategies. :) I own a Ducati 999 that was lemonlawed because it would stall at stop lights. Super common and happened because of how lean the bikes had to run to pass US emissions.

Google said "random stalls" were kind of endemic to Ducatis. :P Didn't know it was related to the fuel mapping! I had a 1098 which would occasionally (maybe once per month) randomly stall at 0% throttle when braking to a stop. I had a full Termignoni system + race ECU, though. California doesn't do emissions testing on bikes, surprisingly!

I had to put a Power Commander on my R1 because of the aforementioned lean spot. The engine would "chug" at about 37mph (5.2k rpm in 1st gear), which unfortunately happened to be a very common cruising speed. Google showed lots of complaints for other years as well.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#243

Post by 336f5 »

_yosefk wrote: post #214
yason wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's just published you can't be sure it's the same code that runs in the car. You should be able to compile the code and inject your locally compiled firmware to the ECU if you want to verify that the car engine is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

If you can do it, chances are an attacker can, too. I prefer hardware that won't load unsigned software in such places.

Then use reproducible builds. You inspect the source code, and if it does what it's supposed to, compile it reproducibly, and compare the binary with the official one which has a signature. If they match, then everything is kosher.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#244

Post by mikeash »

nickbauman wrote: post #237
mikeash wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your vehicle can't be safe without annoying everyone within a quarter mile radius, it's too unsafe to be on the road.

Like your spirit (I don't like the loud pipes either) but this is a little unfair. Motorcycling should be part of a more sustainable future. Especially when you consider how many OECD commuters commute in cars alone.

I don't think motorcycles are actually so unsafe that they need to be that loud. But rather than argue about that, I'd rather point out that massive noise pollution isn't a fundamental right, so "we must be that loud to ride" is just saying "we shouldn't ride."

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#245

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #146
dragonwriter wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sure, if auto purchasers were at risk of massive fines if they received a vehicle where the manufacturer had done something that the average user wouldn't have the skill to detect, no one subject to the government imposing such fines would ever buy a car again, which would solve the problem quite completely. OTOH, destroying the entire auto industry in the subject jurisdiction might not be considered an optimal…

> destroying the entire auto industry in the subject jurisdiction might not be considered an optimal means of resolving the problem. I don't see how passing the costs along to future car purchasers is better than extracting the costs from the people who were actually harming others.

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#246

Post by ams6110 »

joshrotenberg wrote: post #233
dougb wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how you car will drive after the "fix." I suspect you won't be very happy with it.

Yup, quite possibly thinking about bailing on the car sooner rather than later. I have no idea if this kind of thing significantly affects resale value, but I'm not sure I want to wait around to find out.

There will be aftermarket kits to remove the controls. Just like there are now for all diesel engines.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#247

Post by ams6110 »

meatysnapper wrote: post #138
izacus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, since here in EU the VAG group cars (Seat, Škoda, VW, Audi) are widely perceived as the most reliable and there's a huge amount of people buying nothing else.

Perhaps it's where they are built. I assume most US-bound VWs are from Mexico or US proper due to NAFTA and auto-import regulations.

Yes, VWs made outside of Germany are basically junk.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#248

Post by ams6110 »

gregwtmtno wrote: post #3

I can't believe such a large company would cheat like that. I think there must be more to this. Maybe a rogue employee?

GM knowingly declined to fix the safety problems with their ignition switches. This really killed people, not just violated some arbitrary local emissions number.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#250

Post by acd »

There is also quite some lies "optimism" in the EU regarding stated mpg L/100km from the manufacturer and real world measured mpg.

Is it the same software that the car companies use during EU drive cycle tests vs real world production cars? If you were a cheating manufacturer you would tune your car lean for the tests and more sporty with slightly higher consumption for the real world production run.

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