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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

nytimes.com

161–170 of 341 posts

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#161

What actually incentivizes a customer to take their car to a shop to get this fixed though? It's not causing harm to individual car owners, and it's not like they can get collections agencies to sieze them. Seems like they're going to have trouble getting compliance here...

Epa can potentially require VW offer an incentive to owners.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#162
Anyone know if this "defeat device" would be a violation of the various Euro* regulations in Europe? It's been widely reported [1] that diesel cars emit more NOx than the specification allows, but so far no consequences. More than 50% of all cars sold in the EU are diesel fueled, and many countries are breaching the EU air quality limits. This causes an estimated 400,000 premature deaths each year [2]

[1] http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-new-icct-study-sho... [2] http://www.euractiv.com/sections/health-consumers/eu-sends-b...

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#163
post #112
post #98

I drive a mazda, and my car definitely runs rich (visible buildup on tailpipe, the exhaust smells like gasoline when the engine is cold), but it just passed its first emissions test (at 6 years old) showing no detectable gasoline. I wonder if there's some gaming going on there too.

From the factory all vehicles run rich - it helps immensely with longevity as the extra fuel cools and lubricates the engine.

That was an accurate statement like 40 years ago.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#165
post #152
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see VW prohibited from selling any vehicles in the US for a small number of quarters. That would be real punishment. All those dealers and salespeople? There are a certain amount of cars that need to be sold. If VW is out of the mix, the demand is still there. The dealers can sell something else. I'm certain that Toyota and Ford can quickly come to some arrangement with those dealers, including any st…

Do you have even the faintest clue of how car sales work? Or of how regulatory enforcement works? The EPA can't ban VW sales entirely.

I believe the AG's office is involved.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#166
post #5

I research for the auto industry and this was very well known by the authorities. Fixed test cycles like the New European Driving Cycle https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Ne... were easy to detect, and easy to optimize against. That's why coming regulations introduce more realistic cycles like WLTC https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/WL... and real road tests, where partic…

I hope this gets fixed, although I don't believe it. I care about the noise emissions. AFAIK they are measured on a real road, but only up to 50 km/h and in a ridiculous narrow test.

Harley Davidson and other are known to optimise for this test with movable parts in the exhaust pipes so these get much louder when the bikes goes faster than 50 Km/h.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#167
post #63
post #4

How would this benefit Volkswagen? The article says the device activates emissions control systems when it detects the car is being tested... so it's not as if they're saving money by emulating a system they're not manufacturing.

The VW/Audi 2.0t EA888 engine is capable of producing 100 more hp with a software update. These turbo/diesel/supercharged engines have a million parameters that they can modify to change driveability. I cant believe that they would do something like that to pass emissions testing though, that seems incredibly foolish. I would imagine that with diesel engines, economy and certain emissions are at odds with each other.

They are, in particular the higher the in cylinder combustion temperature the higher the efficiency, and the higher the NOx production. This caused heavy diesels to get less efficient for a few years when NOx stringencies were tightened. Then they were tightened far enough to require catalytic reduction, and manufactures went back to high efficiency high NOx combustion and removed the NOx downstream.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total speculation based solely on experience as a consumer (and I own a 2013 VW Golf TDI, so it affects me), but my guess is that the fix would be updated software to apply the stricter emissions controls all the time, presumably at the expense of engine performance. EDIT: And reducing fuel economy, which is a huge selling point of the TDI in the first place. No idea "by how much" though, and typically TDI numbers ar…

Yea, I have a 2015 Jetta which is why I was curious. I wonder if this explains why my car sounds really weird for the first few minutes of running.

It's probably the secondary air pump (sometimes nicknamed the "Good Morning Pump" by VW owners) that operates when the engine is cold, to reduce pollution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California's CARB is the gestapo of car emissions. If anyone has the motivation, expertise, and evil disposition to detect this, it's the state of California. I've never lived in a state like this. Bi-yearly tailpipe sniffs and visual inspections. Even if your car's emissions are cleaner than their ridiculous requirements, they'll still fail your car if it has parts on it that are not stock. I ended up having to sell…

More interestingly: Did the German TÜV not detect this? They have even stricter rules.

And completely different emission and OBD requirements. I don't know how much hardware they share, but they definitely use different software.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#170
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical debt of petrol engines is not relevant to this article: > The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2009.

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker. I thought the word "petrol" includes diesel, too!

No worries! "Internal combustion engines" might be the best phrase to use, then.
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