Wikimedia Maps Beta • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#71

Post by jevgeni » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 3:05 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #63

jevgeni wrote: post #53

Crimean names are in Russian. :/

Whatever you may think of Crimea status, people in Crimea use Russian language dominantly. Why would you expect names not be in it? This sort of behavior you're demonstrating is exactly what contributed to recent Ukraine troubles. P. S. In Italy, cities in Sudtirol - Alto Adige marked in both German and Italian. That's responsible behavior if you want examples.

Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading?

> marked in both German and Italian.

both

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#72

Post by jevgeni » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 3:05 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #62

jevgeni wrote: post #53

Crimean names are in Russian. :/

Nobody told you? Oh.

You mean of the Russian occupation?

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#73

Post by UserRights » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 4:06 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #30

Whats the difference between this and wikimapia? Aside from wikimapia having complete maps and orthographic layers ofc...

  * Under what license is the data published at wikimapia?
  * Where can I download the data?
  * [How] can I use it for my own website?

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#74

Post by scott_karana » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

jevgeni wrote: post #71

guard-of-terra wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you may think of Crimea status, people in Crimea use Russian language dominantly. Why would you expect names not be in it? This sort of behavior you're demonstrating is exactly what contributed to recent Ukraine troubles. P. S. In Italy, cities in Sudtirol - Alto Adige marked in both German and Italian. That's responsible behavior if you want examples.

Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading? > marked in both German and Italian. both

> Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading?

It's not as simple as "they just now got attacked and now their signs have all been changed".

Crimea and its people have had linguistic/social/cultural/economic ties to Russia/USSR for a lot longer than merely the recent conflict....

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#75

Post by niedzielski » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 4:16 PM UTC

This will be available in the Android app too[0]. It'll debut on beta[1] first.

[0] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/212922/ [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia....

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#76

Post by jevgeni » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

scott_karana wrote: post #74

jevgeni wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading? > marked in both German and Italian. both

> Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading? It's not as simple as "they just now got attacked and now their signs have all been changed". Crimea and its people have had linguistic/social/cultural/economic ties to Russia/USSR for a lot longer than merely the recent conflict....

Well, China has very old ties with Outer Manchuria (also known as Priamursk is Russia [1]), so would it be OK for China to invade?

There is a lot of shared history around the world, like Alsace-Lorraine, for example. Strangely enough Germany doesn't invade France for some reason...

[1] - https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Russia-Soviet-Union-in...

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#77

Post by MildlySerious » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

dalke wrote: post #61

snogglethorpe wrote: post #36

One thing I found neat about this was that (at least by default) it seems language-neutral: scrolling around the world, labels over the U.S. are in English, labels in Japan are in Japanese, Korea, in Korean, China, in simplified Chinese, etc. Not even any romanized (or otherwise translated/transliterated) labels in parentheses. Just the native presentation. Granted that for practicality, you probably also want a mode…

> but as a default (when the user doesn't express a language preference), I understand your viewpoint, and think it's noble. But you might want to tweak your parenthetical comment. In practice, I and most others do express a default language preference, which is sent as part of the browser's HTTP request. In my case it's: Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.5 which means it's ignoring my preference. And I'm fine with that.…

Being the edge case of internet users with a different default language than what my geolocation would result in, I know how frustrating it is to expect one language, and get another one "tailored" to you in order to "improve" user experience.

However, in this specific case I agree with the parent commenter. While the preferred language should affect the UI so you can interact with the map, I feel like in this case translating the content right away could take away from the experience and is not necessarily what the language flag should mean. It shouldn't be more than a click away, though.

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#78

Post by pluma » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 7:27 PM UTC

jevgeni wrote: post #72

pluma wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody told you? Oh.

You mean of the Russian occupation?

Occupation schmockupation. If Russia was Germany, Poland would be getting nervous.

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#79

Post by scott_karana » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

jevgeni wrote: post #76

scott_karana wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recent Ukrainian troubles were mostly caused by, oh I dunno, a foreign army invading? It's not as simple as "they just now got attacked and now their signs have all been changed". Crimea and its people have had linguistic/social/cultural/economic ties to Russia/USSR for a lot longer than merely the recent conflict....

Well, China has very old ties with Outer Manchuria (also known as Priamursk is Russia [1]), so would it be OK for China to invade? There is a lot of shared history around the world, like Alsace-Lorraine, for example. Strangely enough Germany doesn't invade France for some reason... [1] - https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Russia-Soviet-Union-in...

Eh? I'm not saying it's okay for Russia to invade. Quite the reverse. I'm saying that the mere presence of Russian language signs in Crimea doesn't mean it was caused by the recent events.

Your example shows the exact same property. :-)

Re: Wikimedia Maps Beta

#80

Post by dalke » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 10:26 PM UTC

MildlySerious wrote: post #77

dalke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but as a default (when the user doesn't express a language preference), I understand your viewpoint, and think it's noble. But you might want to tweak your parenthetical comment. In practice, I and most others do express a default language preference, which is sent as part of the browser's HTTP request. In my case it's: Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.5 which means it's ignoring my preference. And I'm fine with that.…

Being the edge case of internet users with a different default language than what my geolocation would result in, I know how frustrating it is to expect one language, and get another one "tailored" to you in order to "improve" user experience. However, in this specific case I agree with the parent commenter. While the preferred language should affect the UI so you can interact with the map, I feel like in this case t…

I'm in immigrant living in country where English is not the native language. :)

However, I think you've misinterpreted the OP's comment and my response.

The OP likes the choice of native language for geographical names in a given country. You and I agree. The OP parenthetically notes that the reason is because the user has not expressed a language preference. I pointed out that the browser/user-agent actually does give a preference, which the server ignores.

It is this parenthetical logic I disagree with, not the result.