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Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#51

Post by merb »

buffoon wrote: post #45
MichaelGG wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An even simpler summary: To add SPDY or HTTP/2 support to IIS, you must upgrade the operating system. I understand why this is (http.sys) but ... wow. Whereas using nginx I literally add "spdy" to the config and presto, double-digit% improvement on my site.

Yes exactly that sort of shit is what we have to deal with! http.sys is a giant fucking turd. That and the whole urlacl thing. Nothing but pain. They added it because of shitty performance in the NT kernel when serving HTTP from userspace and it turned into a friction point for the whole operating system.

The question is why is the userspace so shitty? Doesn't Microsoft implement some async things into their kernel? Or stuff like epoll, kqueue, etc..?

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#52

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

x5n1 wrote: post #34
noir_lord wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 35, started using Linux in '97 so I've been around for most of the history. It's quite amazing how Microsoft has changed in that time tbh from "Embrace, Extinguish, Extend" and all the shenanigans they pulled with comparing Win2k vs Linux/Samba and the halloween memo through to submitting code to the kernel, using Linux as a guest in their VM stuff and now using it internally not to mention making .Net a first cl…

They don't have a choice. Linux has already won. Heard of Android? Yeah that's the Linux kernel right there, over a billion mobile devices. Heard of Mac OS? That's a Unix kernel right there. Microsoft makes a proprietary operating system with cumbersome licensing restrictions. Microsoft is 10 years from death if it does not embrace Linux.

> Microsoft is 10 years from death if it does not embrace Linux.

FWIW, I remember people saying this in 1999 as well...

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#53

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

ck2 wrote: post #21

And they are partnering with CyanogenMod to get it on their phones/tablets. Is Microsoft doing an IBM-like refocusing?

Certainly seems that way since Nadella took charge, although I'm sure the wheels were already set in motion back in the Ballmer days.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#54

Post by buffoon »

merb wrote: post #51
buffoon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly that sort of shit is what we have to deal with! http.sys is a giant fucking turd. That and the whole urlacl thing. Nothing but pain. They added it because of shitty performance in the NT kernel when serving HTTP from userspace and it turned into a friction point for the whole operating system.

The question is why is the userspace so shitty? Doesn't Microsoft implement some async things into their kernel? Or stuff like epoll, kqueue, etc..?

NT syscall overhead is immense compared to a Unix derivative. There are layers galore.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#55

Post by ilitirit »

Microsoft's foray - I don't necessarily mean that in a negative way - into OS technologies doesn't surprise me any more.

I remember an MS Rep telling us one day:

> Our CEO believes that consumption is the new currency.

The context in which he used it seemed to imply that Nadella believes that the way forward for Microsoft is to not so much compete with existing products, but to give people new and better ways to consume existing ones, and of course to consume these existing products themselves. So it really doesn't surprise me that they've built their own Linux for Azure Stack, especially with guys like Cumulus Networks in the market.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#56

Post by junto »

buffoon wrote: post #11
junto wrote: post #2

Microsoft are now moving quickly to allow users to run .NET on all platforms. How long until they decide that Windows Server is no longer worth investing in? Or are there too many Microsoft server products earning good profits (i.e. Exchange and BizTalk), to make that switch a realistic future expectation? I'm genuinely interested to hear people's opinions on their thoughts of the future of Microsoft and Windows Serv…

Heavy Windows server user here. We have 100+ windows server 2008 R2 and 2012 R2 machines in production and a massive .Net/C# codebase. Currently it's a complete bastard of an operating system. It's expensive, hard to manage even with powershell and DSC etc, difficult to update, difficult to provision, complicated and to be honest absolutely terrible licensing hell that costs us days a year. Hyper-V just adds complexi…

If you are struggling/fighting with the large deployments, I recommend you have a chat with http://www.devopsguys.com/ down in Cardiff, UK. That's all they do (and well). Speak to Jim and tell them @Junto sent you.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#57

Post by buffoon »

junto wrote: post #56
buffoon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heavy Windows server user here. We have 100+ windows server 2008 R2 and 2012 R2 machines in production and a massive .Net/C# codebase. Currently it's a complete bastard of an operating system. It's expensive, hard to manage even with powershell and DSC etc, difficult to update, difficult to provision, complicated and to be honest absolutely terrible licensing hell that costs us days a year. Hyper-V just adds complexi…

If you are struggling/fighting with the large deployments, I recommend you have a chat with http://www.devopsguys.com/ down in Cardiff, UK. That's all they do (and well). Speak to Jim and tell them @Junto sent you.

Thanks for the reference. They're not for this platform as we've already nailed down what we're doing but will keep them in my notes for future projects.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#58

Post by kyberias »

david-given wrote: post #46
pluma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was even some Unix in Windows itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

...and I perpetrated a horrible hack which let me run unmodified Linux binaries on it. http://lbw.sourceforge.net (Seriously, it's a vile, vile hack, involving dynamically patching running binaries to work round Windows ABI differences and work around seg faults. But it works well enough to run a Debian userland.)

That's an amazing hack! I've looked at that page a great many times over the years.

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#59

Post by kyberias »

buffoon wrote: post #11
junto wrote: post #2

Microsoft are now moving quickly to allow users to run .NET on all platforms. How long until they decide that Windows Server is no longer worth investing in? Or are there too many Microsoft server products earning good profits (i.e. Exchange and BizTalk), to make that switch a realistic future expectation? I'm genuinely interested to hear people's opinions on their thoughts of the future of Microsoft and Windows Serv…

Heavy Windows server user here. We have 100+ windows server 2008 R2 and 2012 R2 machines in production and a massive .Net/C# codebase. Currently it's a complete bastard of an operating system. It's expensive, hard to manage even with powershell and DSC etc, difficult to update, difficult to provision, complicated and to be honest absolutely terrible licensing hell that costs us days a year. Hyper-V just adds complexi…

"Have moved off to Windows Server AppFabric"

Doesn't really sound you know what you're talking about. That technology is dead and doesn't really replace BizTalk.

"In April 2015 Microsoft announced that it will end support for AppFabric for Windows Server on the 2nd April 2016."

Re: Microsoft has developed its own Linux: in-house software-defined networking OS

#60

Post by debacle »

DanBC wrote: post #38
noir_lord wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 35, started using Linux in '97 so I've been around for most of the history. It's quite amazing how Microsoft has changed in that time tbh from "Embrace, Extinguish, Extend" and all the shenanigans they pulled with comparing Win2k vs Linux/Samba and the halloween memo through to submitting code to the kernel, using Linux as a guest in their VM stuff and now using it internally not to mention making .Net a first cl…

MS used to really trash open source, with Ballmer calling GPL "cancer". (Although the company pulled back from that extreme). When MS took over Hotmail they got rid of FreeBSD that was running it. But MS have used Unix for years. They released MS IE for Unix. (The only person I know who ever used it was on HN.) Perhaps more bizarre was the Windows Media Player for Unix. Their TCP/IP stack was from BSD for ages (and p…

The GPL is a cancerous license, and Ballmer had to trash open source. That was their business model and they were using the OSS association against Novell.

Edit: For those of you downmodding me for saying that the GPL is a cancerous license, please understand that this isn't a negative connotation - it's simply an aspect of the requirements of the license. It's very likely a good thing, and part of the reason that Linux is doing well while BSDs have languished.

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