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Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

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Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#91

Post by Reason077 »

Maarten88 wrote: post #83
stevoski wrote: post #51

I commented this on yesterday's jsbin article, and I'll write it again. Don't implement the payment processing code yourself. (And using Stripe is _still_ implementing it yourself - they supply only one part of the process.) Writing this code will take time that you are not using to develop and market your product. (cf opportunity cost). Your code will be buggy. Your code will be weak. Your code will not support the…

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

iDEAL is fine for transactions between a Dutch client and a Dutch merchant. Other countries also have similar, local payment solutions which bypass credit card processors (e.g. POLi in Australia and New Zealand)

But it does nothing for a business like Candy Japan which sells to a global audience. The advantage of credit cards is that they are one payment system that works pretty much everywhere, worldwide.

Also, you should realise that, as a customer, you typically don't have the same chargeback rights when using a banking service like iDEAL compared to what you get with a Credit card. This can be a big deal when, for example, a merchant goes bankrupt before delivering your purchase.

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#93

Post by rplnt »

Maarten88 wrote: post #83
stevoski wrote: post #51

I commented this on yesterday's jsbin article, and I'll write it again. Don't implement the payment processing code yourself. (And using Stripe is _still_ implementing it yourself - they supply only one part of the process.) Writing this code will take time that you are not using to develop and market your product. (cf opportunity cost). Your code will be buggy. Your code will be weak. Your code will not support the…

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

Having visited NL, my card was practically useless. Any other country no problem, but Netherlands? So I don't understand you really.

That being said, direct payment gateways are common, but they require cooperation with banks. There's probably hundreds of them and only make sense on local market where you can have on or two implemented to satisfy 80%+ of customers (and others will just use regular card).

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#94

Post by mattmanser »

SyneRyder wrote: post #39
chli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody seem to know or mention : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure I have to use it with most online shops here in Switzerland.

3D Secure was mentioned in the other thread. Folks recommended avoiding 3D Secure / Verified By Visa because so many banks implement it insecurely, and the redirect model is easy for phishing scams to imitate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10235328 That redirect will kill conversion rates too, being redirected to a site you didn't expect claiming to be your bank but not matching its URL... of course it will fr…

Re: Conversion rates, as a consumer I have got used to it and it does not affect conversion for me at all.

Everyone uses it now in the UK and you always get redirected to the exact same page. I expect it, it doesn't put me off buying.

So it's a bad objection to the system, because once everyone's using it, it becomes the norm. Yes, there will be a dip in conversions to begin with as consumers are scared by the new page, but it will recover. Some people's implementation sucks, but that's a different matter.

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#95

Post by DanBC »

mattmanser wrote: post #94
SyneRyder wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D Secure was mentioned in the other thread. Folks recommended avoiding 3D Secure / Verified By Visa because so many banks implement it insecurely, and the redirect model is easy for phishing scams to imitate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10235328 That redirect will kill conversion rates too, being redirected to a site you didn't expect claiming to be your bank but not matching its URL... of course it will fr…

Re: Conversion rates, as a consumer I have got used to it and it does not affect conversion for me at all. Everyone uses it now in the UK and you always get redirected to the exact same page. I expect it, it doesn't put me off buying. So it's a bad objection to the system, because once everyone's using it, it becomes the norm. Yes, there will be a dip in conversions to begin with as consumers are scared by the new pa…

I loathe verified by visa. I'll still buy from that site, but only in unusual circumstances. Verified by visa means I'd rather buy from somewhere else.

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#96

Post by germanier »

Reason077 wrote: post #91
Maarten88 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

iDEAL is fine for transactions between a Dutch client and a Dutch merchant. Other countries also have similar, local payment solutions which bypass credit card processors (e.g. POLi in Australia and New Zealand) But it does nothing for a business like Candy Japan which sells to a global audience. The advantage of credit cards is that they are one payment system that works pretty much everywhere, worldwide. Also, you…

> global audience

That's the reason they recommended to use a payment gateway that implements all those local payment solutions. For example, in Germany you loose a lot of customers if you don't offer direct debit (ELV) as many don't own a credit card (and don't want to).

> you typically don't have the same chargeback rights when using a banking service like iDEAL

This heavily depends on the service. For example, the upcoming German Paydirekt will offer better chargeback service than most German credit cards (where you typically don't enjoy the US-style "anything is reversible" type of protection).

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#97

Post by LeonM »

rplnt wrote: post #93
Maarten88 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

Having visited NL, my card was practically useless. Any other country no problem, but Netherlands? So I don't understand you really. That being said, direct payment gateways are common, but they require cooperation with banks. There's probably hundreds of them and only make sense on local market where you can have on or two implemented to satisfy 80%+ of customers (and others will just use regular card).

That's the whole point, in the Netherlands we use debit cards (known as 'PIN cards' to the locals) instead of credit cards. Usually these are Maestro cards. I don't know the exact number, but as a Dutch resident I guess that >99% of all POS transactions are done using such card, not a credit card.

Cashiers in most common shops probably don't even know how to accept a payment by credit card, so the'll just refuse.

Meastro cards are usually protected by a PIN and require a POS system to be used. This was a problem for e-commerce, so the Dutch banks participated in iDEAL. It's basically a redirect from the merchants website to the bank site of the customer, where they use their own cardreader and debit card to validate the transaction before being redirected back to the site of the merchant.

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#98

Post by bartwe »

rplnt wrote: post #93
Maarten88 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

Having visited NL, my card was practically useless. Any other country no problem, but Netherlands? So I don't understand you really. That being said, direct payment gateways are common, but they require cooperation with banks. There's probably hundreds of them and only make sense on local market where you can have on or two implemented to satisfy 80%+ of customers (and others will just use regular card).

iDEAL covers nearly all the dutch banks (10 of them) so no 'per bank' payment systems. Creditcards are not accepted by brick and mortar stores except for some very tourist heavy areas, most people do not have a creditcard here.

Re: Candy Japan hit with credit card fraud

#100

Post by Maarten88 »

rplnt wrote: post #93
Maarten88 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Holland, where everyone does online transactions with iDeal, I find it hard to understand why the rest of the world is using credit card payments at all, for anything. It is massively insecure, it's expensive for the merchant, and theft is ignored (when millions of stored creditcard records are stolen, those cards are not invalidated and replaced?). This is all at the cost of customers and other merchants.…

Having visited NL, my card was practically useless. Any other country no problem, but Netherlands? So I don't understand you really. That being said, direct payment gateways are common, but they require cooperation with banks. There's probably hundreds of them and only make sense on local market where you can have on or two implemented to satisfy 80%+ of customers (and others will just use regular card).

> my card was practically useless

That's because merchants pay 3% or more for a creditcard payment, and something like 0.8% for a local bank card payment (with the online equivalent iDeal). On top of that, there is much more risk accepting the creditcard with chargebacks, while the banks guarantee normal/iDeal payments. So most merchants here really dislike creditcard payments, it "costs them" much more.

Of course I understand that this is not a solution for accepting payments internationally. What I say is that the whole creditcard payment system, as it currently works, should be replaced by something saner, something that looks more like iDeal.

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