Wow I would not want to work for or with this guy. Someone who blatantly lies like that will hardly make a good teammate or a boss.
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Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
41–50 of 137 posts
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#42Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
I tried to look myself up, and indeed they don't have my current employer (a small startup). My guess is that only larger employers participate. More importantly, this raises significant privacy issues. How can a current or former employer make sensitive data like salary information easily and publicly accessible, without permission? That ought to be illegal. I agree that it's really wrong to lie about one's salary;…
My take (as it was explained to me by HR) is that currently it's used as a way to let decisionmakers (landlords, bank loan officers, court systems, etc) get verification of employment and/or salary via mutual agreement. You, as the wage-earner, grant an access key to a landlord for example. He then can get quick verification of your application information without wasting HR's time.
But I trust the credit bureaus as far as I can throw them. This will certainly morph into other uses for the data, like this:
Hiring Company: "Did Joe Pastebin earn $100,000 last year?"
Equifax: "Nope."
And out goes the bong letter.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#43[deleted]
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#44[deleted]
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#45I dislike this greatly, and it doesn't seem like a sustainable path - if the market crashes, and his/her skills don't match the compensation level, then it will backfire greatly & catch up to him/her. I was able to boost my salary to $160k in 2 1/2 years from a starting salary of $50k, but through tireless improvement of my craft (self-studying, experimentation, and contributions to major open source libraries, inclu…
I'm with you that the tactics used here seem a little bit scummy (though I've seen plenty of bullshit from the other side of the table more consistently), but the author does at least claim to also be working hard to improve their craft as well, so I'm not sure your initial concern is really relevant.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#46This. 100% this. You are selling the only resource that you have a limited supply of - your time. Asking for more money in exchange is a GOOD THING.
I have NEVER had a raise offered to me. I've been a software engineer for 15 years now. I have always received raises though, because I asked for them, with leverage. I have climbed my way from getting hired to a 120 person company with a below median salary to making probably more than anyone in 6 months, by being good at what I do and asking or more in return.
Employee/employer relations are always a fight for survival. Be the lion.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#47Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
It's worth mentioning that in some parts of the world (for example Israel) people don't have credit scores and you can't pay a service to find out what their income is. Of course, lying is still mostly unnecessary, especially if you interview a lot and actually do have offers to back up your claims. Personally I think the hit your reputation would take from lying just isn't worth it.
True, and let's quantify this a bit more. It's a lot easier to be upfront honest and give a take-it-or-leave-it number when you're currently employed and can afford to pass up the offer and move to the next company.
A lot of people are not in this position. Negotiation certainly becomes critical. A little bit of homework and diplomatic work can bump your salary by thousands or tens of thousands with a few hours of work. This is impossible to do once you start your employment.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#48Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
Wrong! There was no cheaper option and this engineer/negotiator knew it. (70k? Seriously? Even in 2010...) Everything he said was dead on and I recommend everyone to follow his lead. Admittedly, you should have a firm grasp of the market, and the way he got it by aggressively pursuing alternative offers is absolutely the right way to do it. Also, he was dead on when he said you should always have an alternative that you'd seriously go to. Asking for a raise without serious alternative in hand is dumb dumb dumb.
That all being said, ideally you'd work for a company that didn't force you to do these sorts of shenanigans. Such companies are more rare than they should be.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#49Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
> That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement on board. Then your salary is changed to $0.00.
I believe the op was in the NE where there are limited choices for employers when it comes to hiring (unlike in SV, they're dime a dozen).
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#50OP's first mistake is only interviewing at 2 companies, which apparently both sucked.
OP's second mistake is staying at the same company for so long despite the fact that (a) they have to fight for decent raises (b) the company sucks. Seriously, at the point where there are "serious problems in sales, engineers are leaving en masse", OP doubles down. They are now a highly paid manager in a sucky company.
OP's third and worst mistake is equivocating: "there's no harm in lying about salary". That's delusional. Yes there is harm, they repeatedly lied, and now who knows what else they would lie about. That proves they have no sense of ethics. It's true other people do it. It's true the company will lay you off the second they decide to restructure. None of that accounts for an ounce of lost personal or professional integrity. In our world as developers, we regularly have access to intensely personal or valuable information. What harm could come if we fudge a little bit about how good is our security implementation? What harm could possibly come if someone happened to offer us, say, $100k for a little tidbit of info about user102532@gmail.com? No one will ever know, right?