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YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

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241–250 of 282 posts

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#241
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression you were the parent I initially replied to. I apologise. So in regards to your question, AA has been disastrous around the world. In India and Bangladesh hundreds of thousands of deaths, people burning each other in the street, terrifying stuff. All because of class wars instigated by benefits to one class over the other. Same results, on a different magnitude, in Malaysia, Nigeria, Iran, A…

this is ridiculous. "in all of recorded history"? hundreds of thousands of deaths? in Australia?! :D but i guess if you read it in a book, it must be true! there's also a book out there claiming the Nazi regime was all the work of gay people. look it up, you'll probably love it.

If you had bothered to read my post..."On a different magnitude".

In India and Bangladesh there is recorded history of hundreds of thousands of deaths. The book sources these facts, if you want to invalidate anything I suggest you go to the original sources, not make a straw man arguement.

I will reiterate, read the book, read the sources -- if you want to invalidate something, invalidate the primary pieces of evidence -- than come back here and we can have a productive conversation.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an accident that America has particular problems with Black/White and Hispanic/White race relations. Comparisons of race relations in America to race relations anywhere else need to be quite careful to identify the correspondences. The claim that race is too murky a concept to pin down is generally invoked in cases like this; observed preferential treatment for historically disadvantaged races. If race can't…

Bullshit. Black people aren't discriminated because they're from a 'black race', there is no black race. They're discriminated against because their skin color is black. Discrimination on the basis of skin color can (and obviously does) exist without the existence of an concept of race. As for hispanic, that's an ethnonym, i.e. an ethnic group, that's exactly my point. This is how we talk in say the Netherlands about…

Many black people have lighter skin than many white people.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#244
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Black people aren't discriminated because they're from a 'black race', there is no black race. They're discriminated against because their skin color is black. Discrimination on the basis of skin color can (and obviously does) exist without the existence of an concept of race. As for hispanic, that's an ethnonym, i.e. an ethnic group, that's exactly my point. This is how we talk in say the Netherlands about…

Many black people have lighter skin than many white people.

Just think about how silly that sounds. Imagine I said black is a lighter shade of color than white, it'd be ridiculous. Somehow such an outdated idea that human beings come from or can be separated into entirely different races, biologically different subsets of species, and that one is black and the other is white, remains in the American everyday semantics even though American academia has long moved past such a model.

Anyway, maybe this wasn't clear, when I say race isn't a thing I'm saying it's not a tenable scientific theory of human or biological taxonomy.

That doesn't mean that race as an erroneous social construct doesn't exist in the minds of people. In that way, race as a concept is still very much alive. But when someone says 'Asian is not a race', I think it's important to also note that black or hispanic or white, isn't, either, it's a social construct that is outdated, silly and that we should move past. Just like when people say 'homosexuality is a choice', when scientifically this is wrong, doesn't mean that this idea is not very much alive in the minds of some people. But when someone makes mention of it, it's important to note that it's a wrongful belief that homosexuality is a choice.

Some quick references for those who're unfamiliar with race as a social construct:

> As anthropologists and other evolutionary scientists have shifted away from the language of race to the term population to talk about genetic differences, historians, cultural anthropologists and other social scientists re-conceptualized the term "race" as a cultural category or social construct—a particular way that some people talk about themselves and others.

> Many social scientists have replaced the word race with the word "ethnicity" to refer to self-identifying groups based on beliefs concerning shared culture, ancestry and history. Alongside empirical and conceptual problems with "race", following the Second World War, evolutionary and social scientists were acutely aware of how beliefs about race had been used to justify discrimination, apartheid, slavery, and genocide. This questioning gained momentum in the 1960s during the U.S. civil rights movement and the emergence of numerous anti-colonial movements worldwide. They thus came to believe that race itself is a social construct, a concept that was believed to correspond to an objective reality but which was believed in because of its social functions.

> Craig Venter and Francis Collins of the National Institute of Health jointly made the announcement of the mapping of the human genome in 2000. Upon examining the data from the genome mapping, Venter realized that although the genetic variation within the human species is on the order of 1–3% (instead of the previously assumed 1%), the types of variations do not support notion of genetically defined races. Venter said, "Race is a social concept. It's not a scientific one. There are no bright lines (that would stand out), if we could compare all the sequenced genomes of everyone on the planet." "When we try to apply science to try to sort out these social differences, it all falls apart."

> Stephan Palmié asserted that race "is not a thing but a social relation"; or, in the words of Katya Gibel Mevorach, "a metonym", "a human invention whose criteria for differentiation are neither universal nor fixed but have always been used to manage difference." As such, the use of the term "race" itself must be analyzed. Moreover, they argue that biology will not explain why or how people use the idea of race: History and social relationships will.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#245
post #220

This probably won't be very popular: but isn't the notion of special treatment from YC partners on the basis of race inherently racist? I think anyone who is black or Hispanic would much rather associate with YC on the basis of their own individual merit only now everyone who has anything to do with YC will have to wonder if they are there because YC felt the need to help out the poor, underprivileged, black dude or…

I'm not sure it serves HN very well to have exactly the same entirely generic debate come up every time there's a thread about anything like this. Rehashing the same political divide over and over merely produces the identical hash over and over. That doesn't count as interesting in HN's sense—nothing predictable does. Meanwhile, interesting discussion about the specifics of the story at hand largely gets drowned out…

If it comes up so often, then that is usually a pretty good indication that it's a topic that requires more discussion. Waving it away is, then, just going to make it come up again the next time.

For what it's worth, I do agree with Uptrenda. I do also want to explicitly highlight that this certainly is racism - and that whether it is justifiable racism is a separate discussion entirely.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#246
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is ridiculous. "in all of recorded history"? hundreds of thousands of deaths? in Australia?! :D but i guess if you read it in a book, it must be true! there's also a book out there claiming the Nazi regime was all the work of gay people. look it up, you'll probably love it.

If you had bothered to read my post..."On a different magnitude". In India and Bangladesh there is recorded history of hundreds of thousands of deaths. The book sources these facts, if you want to invalidate anything I suggest you go to the original sources, not make a straw man arguement. I will reiterate, read the book, read the sources -- if you want to invalidate something, invalidate the primary pieces of eviden…

sorry, but you presented it very weakly. i checked wikipedia in the meanwhile, and it does it much better justice.

i certainly don't have the time or will to read a 200 page book for the sake of an HN discussion. this should not be a surprise. you could maybe outline something? i'm particularly interested in how exactly these killings came about. wikipedia quotes some criticism - that the examples were cherry-picked, and not even entirely comparable to affirmative action in the US, the contexts were too different (and, kinda funny, one critic states that he already published this same book in the 90s under a diff name :D). but then, wiki also quotes some very interesting arguments he laid out that i did not see here and that sound good.

all in all, i can agree it's a crude method, but hey, it's better than nothing. lots of people here pointing out problems and only some offering solutions, although strictly laughably unrealistic ones. certainly, no mass killings have happened in the US because of it, and such fear-mongering helps nothing. i personally would bet that, were the US a social democracy, all of this would probably be much less needed. when health and education are provided, opportunities are more available to everyone. but the way it is now, any disadvantaged group is more likely to stay that way.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then whats the cause of the poor treatment?

If you are saying white privilege is the cause of poor treatment of the black man mentioned above, you are way off base. Privilege is not the cause of the treatment, it is the result.

I'm just simply asking whats the cause of the poor treatment? If you are able to assert that it is not due to white privilege and know if someone is off-base, then I'm assuming you know that cause to make such an assertion. That's all.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#248

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm just trying to find a justification. Having something that says you can only can come in if you are "Black, Hispanic, Women, Veterans, and International founders" kinda racist as fuck? It sounds exactly like segregation to me. Again, not trying to be a troll. Not American, just trying to understand.

It is not racism. Racism is the attitude/belief that one race is superior to another race. Also military veteran is not a race. It is discrimination. Discrimination is having applicants use 23andMe to prove that they are more black than white, so you can give them a different preferential treatment. Next to making the world a better place through more black startup founders, this is a PR move. Paul Graham stopped pos…

This was incredibly hard to read, but you are correct in one thing, it is not racism. It's Institutional racism, which is any system of inequality based on race.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#249
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? The fact that you think this is a dichotomy is why the whole proposal sounds ridiculous to you. What if people don't want to feel that they have to choose between expressing their racial/sexual identity and being accepted as a human? Do you seriously not understand that that is the issue -- t…

First, this is not a debate about wether oppression exists; obviously it does. I'm asking if team-sports-like brand exclusivity is right, when our ultimate goal should be the acceptance of everyone. Do think about why you insist on labeling yourself. I don't care if you're gay, and it's certainly not the most important thing I want to hear about you. If we're not talking about sex, why would you bring up your sexual…

> Do think about why you insist on labeling yourself. I don't care if you're gay, and it's certainly not the most important thing I want to hear about you.

Ah, surely what's most important about me are the things you want to hear about.

> I am not untitled because I am following others, I am untitled because I am unique and un-titleable.

But these are not labels, and are in no way ideas about yourself to which you attach an undue importance. If I were to blithely negate your perceived individuality by suggesting that you were utterly banal and unoriginal, that certainly wouldn't be a blow to your nameless ego, right?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#250
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not downvote you. I asked a question. There are only so many hours in the day. So, unfortunately, I cannot read every single thing I wish I could read. It would be nice if you actually answered my question instead of recommending "read this book" for the third time. I heard you the first two times. Peace. Edit: and have an upvote as a token of good faith.

I was under the impression you were the parent I initially replied to. I apologise. So in regards to your question, AA has been disastrous around the world. In India and Bangladesh hundreds of thousands of deaths, people burning each other in the street, terrifying stuff. All because of class wars instigated by benefits to one class over the other. Same results, on a different magnitude, in Malaysia, Nigeria, Iran, A…

Thank you. I am not a fan of affirmative action. But I also understand that a) it's a touchy topic and b) many people do not know what else to do and want to do something and c) it actually isn't possible to ever know for sure what the world would look like had these events not occured, so we do not know for a fact that it would have gone better had these initiatives not happened. Racism and hatred are rampant. Things might well have gone worse without these intiatives.

I still hope the world can improve on these models, but that is no small task.

Have a good day.

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