YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders • Hacker News Board

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#201

Post by 13thLetter » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #197

tcdent wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? What if your sexual interests go beyond current definitions; are we to add a new slice to the pie chart simply for one person's identification? The trans-gender, sexual-orientation debate gets specific, but it's irrelevant in the end. As I advised a kid confused about his orientation recently:…

> What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? The fact that you think this is a dichotomy is why the whole proposal sounds ridiculous to you. What if people don't want to feel that they have to choose between expressing their racial/sexual identity and being accepted as a human? Do you seriously not understand that that is the issue -- t…

> Do you realize that you're calling irrelevant the core feature of many peoples' identity?

As long as people are treated with a minimum level of civility and not discriminated against for irrelevant personal characteristics, their "identities" are irrelevant. I don't want to know or care about the "identity" of most people I interact with, and I guarantee you they don't want to know or care about mine. We're all very busy.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#202

Post by 13thLetter » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:27 AM UTC

pixelcloud wrote: post #168

gagmaker wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> harder time starting a startup and you certain its all due to their skin color etc? Sorry, I'm having a hard time to believe it. > we also want to do targeted outreach to underrepresented Having that much resources to invest (limited, are they?), you likely will end up funding a business based on founder's skin color. Sorry, but that how it looks like from outside.

It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders. If a group applied with a great idea in the "normal" pool of applicants I suspect they would fair perfectly find against the 6500+ applications. Obviously, YCombinator is worried about their image and cannot figure out how to "close the gap" without this.

"It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders."

Which brings up another interesting point. Are all the ycombinator staff comfortable with being accused of being racists? What would happen to any ycombinator staff who publicly objected to this accusation?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#203

Post by 78666cdc » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:29 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #164

78666cdc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then cite that rather than an unscientific, non-rigorous "study" (read: anecdote).

Let's take a look at the actual citation: Taken from a forthcoming paper by Sampson and Kristin L. Perkins, “Compounded Deprivation in the Transition to Adulthood: The Intersection of Racial and Economic Inequality among Chicagoans, 1995-2013,” in the Russell Sage Foundation Journal of the Social Sciences. Professor Sampson has an endowed chair at Harvard and was previously the chair of his department there. While I…

And Watson, from Watson and Crick, who discovered the underlying commonality of all humanity, DNA, and won a Nobel prize for that work, was extremely racist[0].

That's the problem with arguing based on name recognition. Cite rigorous, peer-reviewed, established work. Let the veracity of the work speak for itself.

[0] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/01/dna-jam...

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#204

Post by tcdent » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:37 AM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #197

tcdent wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? What if your sexual interests go beyond current definitions; are we to add a new slice to the pie chart simply for one person's identification? The trans-gender, sexual-orientation debate gets specific, but it's irrelevant in the end. As I advised a kid confused about his orientation recently:…

> What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? The fact that you think this is a dichotomy is why the whole proposal sounds ridiculous to you. What if people don't want to feel that they have to choose between expressing their racial/sexual identity and being accepted as a human? Do you seriously not understand that that is the issue -- t…

First, this is not a debate about wether oppression exists; obviously it does. I'm asking if team-sports-like brand exclusivity is right, when our ultimate goal should be the acceptance of everyone.

Do think about why you insist on labeling yourself. I don't care if you're gay, and it's certainly not the most important thing I want to hear about you. If we're not talking about sex, why would you bring up your sexual orientation?

Do you think that just because I don't shave, and have subsequently grown a long beard, that I should identify with all the other guys that have beards? Or that I only donate my money only to organizations who are friendly to bearded people? Or that I might have a slightly harder time convincing people of my professionalism, but think that's OK, because I believe in my choice?

I am not untitled because I am following others, I am untitled because I am unique and un-titleable.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#205

Post by aianus » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:46 AM UTC

pixelcloud wrote: post #168

gagmaker wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> harder time starting a startup and you certain its all due to their skin color etc? Sorry, I'm having a hard time to believe it. > we also want to do targeted outreach to underrepresented Having that much resources to invest (limited, are they?), you likely will end up funding a business based on founder's skin color. Sorry, but that how it looks like from outside.

It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders. If a group applied with a great idea in the "normal" pool of applicants I suspect they would fair perfectly find against the 6500+ applications. Obviously, YCombinator is worried about their image and cannot figure out how to "close the gap" without this.

> It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders.

The solution to being subconsciously racist is to be overtly racist instead? Come on.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#206

Post by spinlock » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #41

arturventura wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. It just that the concept just feels weird to me, targeting specifically a few types of people. I suspect having that here where I'm from (Portugal), would have been construed as being racist. Again, not being a troll, just trying to understand.

How much structural discrimination is there in Portuguese society?

Europe is pretty anti Arab these days.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#207

Post by spinlock » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:52 AM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #30

You planning to open up such a thing for the handicapped as well? I mean, until the ACA came along, I pretty much took a risk-aversion pattern career path so I wouldn't get thrown into the "prexisting condition" abyss, and I'm probably not alone here. Personally speaking, a lot of handicapped folk I've met through the years are quite clever, innovative, and determined, because starting life at the plate with a 3-2 co…

As a startup founder, do you try to capture every available market or start with a beach-head and expand from there?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#208

Post by geebee » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:55 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #199

ebfe wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So the fact that the Angry White Woman doesn't get called out for raging much of the time, while the man does, is an example of female privilege. Right?

Sex differences of this type can be seen as privilege, but, in the real world, women who show strong emotion are often described as being hysterical or with other negative terms and marginalized while men are described as driven go-getters for the same behavior, and rewarded.

I'm not sure men who show strong emotion are necessarily viewed as go-getters. Strong emotions can get men in plenty of trouble.

I remember CW Nevius at sfgate (San Francisco chronicle) offered this perspective

http://blog.sfgate.com/cwnevius/2013/11/21/aggressive-womena...

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#209

Post by Uptrenda » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

This probably won't be very popular: but isn't the notion of special treatment from YC partners on the basis of race inherently racist? I think anyone who is black or Hispanic would much rather associate with YC on the basis of their own individual merit only now everyone who has anything to do with YC will have to wonder if they are there because YC felt the need to help out the poor, underprivileged, black dude or because they actually know what they're doing.

I feel quite mixed about this. I can see that it's well-intentioned in nature but at the same time it also seem incredibly condescending. And what kind of message is this really sending: "minorities can succeed but they also need special treatment to do so?" I don't know about this ... I won't deny that in many ways these people struggle with issues that white people don't, but maybe this isn't the best way to go about levelling the playing field. After-all, I feel that black people and Hispanics are perfectly capable of making it through the front door of YC the normal way.

I wonder if this is really necessary?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#210

Post by pixelcloud » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 1:21 AM UTC

aianus wrote: post #205

pixelcloud wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders. If a group applied with a great idea in the "normal" pool of applicants I suspect they would fair perfectly find against the 6500+ applications. Obviously, YCombinator is worried about their image and cannot figure out how to "close the gap" without this.

> It's basically designed to the ycombinator staff can not be subconsciously racist towards founders. The solution to being subconsciously racist is to be overtly racist instead? Come on.

I'm just pointing out a perspective :)

I cannot imagine that YCombinator did not offer equal opportunity's for all applicants. But they have been slammed with some negative press over the past 2 years (and PG specifically), regarding diversity and women founders.

It is not all that surprising. They explicitly said last year they were going to do something to improve diversity.