YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders • Hacker News Board

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#191

Post by SamReidHughes » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:22 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #172

tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

As a large white man, similar things have happened to me. "Can we have this conversation in the stairwell so I can stand 2 steps down and make you feel comfortable?" There may be some racial bias here (I don't have enough reliable data to have much of an opinion), but don't think majorities are immune.

Yeah, well, the difference is, every single black person I've seen that works in the industry has had a superlatively gregarious personality -- comfortable to talk to, ultra-diplomatic, with a good sense of humor. Any similarly sized group of white men I can think of, be it groups of coworkers at different companies, people I play golf with that are in tech, etc, have some angry, caustic personalities. Where'd all the angry black people go?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#192

Post by ebfe » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:25 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #108

tcdent wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

Ok, let's carry this logic- the same disparity exists between men and women. Would you describe women who don't feel safe around their visibly angry coworkers as "dipshits", and dismiss this anger as venting? This must be an example of female privilege, right?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#193

Post by djtriptych » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:28 PM UTC

johnathanNYC wrote: post #184

djtriptych wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism happens in people's hearts and minds, not in policy. Fixing racism means fixing hearts and minds. Calling us "one group" diminishes the value of diversity, which is more or less a fact of nature. We are NOT all the same. Cultural intelligence is a thing. Anyway the specific problem with your race-blind view is that throughout American history we have employed race-sighted policy at every level of government to…

I completely disagree with this, but can you elaborate on racism not being in policy. I think you are confusing systemic racism (in regards to white privilege) with slurs, discrimination, hating someone's skin color, etc.

I mean it's possible to have ideally equitable policy and do almost nothing to address the root causes of racism.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#194

Post by OrwellianChild » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:32 PM UTC

ebfe wrote: post #192

tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

Ok, let's carry this logic- the same disparity exists between men and women. Would you describe women who don't feel safe around their visibly angry coworkers as "dipshits", and dismiss this anger as venting? This must be an example of female privilege, right?

You're reading this backwards... The privilege part is that the Angry White Man doesn't get called out for raging much of the time. They get latitude. The black guy doesn't.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#195

Post by mixmastamyk » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:34 PM UTC

johnathanNYC wrote: post #87

As someone who is both (afro-latino), I'm really excited about this. After reading the majority of the comments, I'm a little disappointed. It seems that many do not understand that being white and male in the United States, by default, affords many privileges that monitories struggle to obtain. If there any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. Curious to why the word Hispanic was used instead of Latino. If…

> Hispanic is a term that originally denoted a relationship to ancient Hispania (Iberian Peninsula).... Brazilians are a good example of Latinos who are not Hispanic.

Weird to focus there. Portugal was part of Hispania and is part of the Iberian Peninsula, just like the rest of their descendants in the Americas.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#196

Post by zasz » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:34 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #172

tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

As a large white man, similar things have happened to me. "Can we have this conversation in the stairwell so I can stand 2 steps down and make you feel comfortable?" There may be some racial bias here (I don't have enough reliable data to have much of an opinion), but don't think majorities are immune.

Right, so imagine how much worse it would be for you if you were black on top of being large.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#197

Post by jessedhillon » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

tcdent wrote: post #125

bakhy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i disagree with the anti-identification claim. if we indeed do not "see race", then how can we even talk about racism, let alone fix it? this may seem trivial, but it is important. as a gay guy, i've heard similar arguments from people (like, "i don't care about sexuality, as long as you're a good person"), and i believe in good intentions, but many people do "see race", and that creates a social situation where peop…

What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend? What if your sexual interests go beyond current definitions; are we to add a new slice to the pie chart simply for one person's identification? The trans-gender, sexual-orientation debate gets specific, but it's irrelevant in the end. As I advised a kid confused about his orientation recently:…

> What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend?

The fact that you think this is a dichotomy is why the whole proposal sounds ridiculous to you. What if people don't want to feel that they have to choose between expressing their racial/sexual identity and being accepted as a human? Do you seriously not understand that that is the issue -- the fact that the issue is presented as a binary and exclusive choice: either express your atypical cultural traits or receive "normal" treatment, but not both.

> The trans-gender, sexual-orientation debate gets specific, but it's irrelevant in the end.

Do you realize that you're calling irrelevant the core feature of many peoples' identity? The only people who can spout this and seriously wonder why nobody else sees it this way are people who fit into mainstream, typical populations and are completely unable to take into account the fact that their own cultural affinities are accepted as normal.

In other words: you already enjoy the acceptance which you are blithely dismissing as a worthless goal for others to pursue.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#198

Post by ebfe » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #194

ebfe wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let's carry this logic- the same disparity exists between men and women. Would you describe women who don't feel safe around their visibly angry coworkers as "dipshits", and dismiss this anger as venting? This must be an example of female privilege, right?

You're reading this backwards... The privilege part is that the Angry White Man doesn't get called out for raging much of the time. They get latitude. The black guy doesn't.

Right. So the fact that the Angry White Woman doesn't get called out for raging much of the time, while the man does, is an example of female privilege. Right?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#199

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 11:45 PM UTC

ebfe wrote: post #198

OrwellianChild wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reading this backwards... The privilege part is that the Angry White Man doesn't get called out for raging much of the time. They get latitude. The black guy doesn't.

Right. So the fact that the Angry White Woman doesn't get called out for raging much of the time, while the man does, is an example of female privilege. Right?

Sex differences of this type can be seen as privilege, but, in the real world, women who show strong emotion are often described as being hysterical or with other negative terms and marginalized while men are described as driven go-getters for the same behavior, and rewarded.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#200

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 12:21 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #185

copperred wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is an example of a white male privilege" No it is not. You cannot point to poor treatment of one group as evidence of the "privilege" of another group. There are more than two colors of people.

Isn't that precisely what privilege means? Having advantages that accrue to you simply by membership in one group? There are degrees of privilege, too. I'm not white - I'm multiracial white/Asian, though I look basically Asian. I'm also not a Stanford grad, and my parents weren't millionaires. However, I grew up middle-class in a reasonably affluent suburb, my parents stayed married, they were highly educated, and I'…

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