Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

blog.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 282 posts

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#151

Post by balls187 »

balls187 wrote: post #146
tcdent wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

> I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. * Innocent until proven guilty (See driving while black) * Citizenship is rarely, if ever, questioned * Friendly relationship with Law Enforcement/Authority * Better health care[1] 1: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/black-kids-get-les...

* Less likely to be assumed a criminal, drug user, or other lower ranking member of society

* Less likely to die of curable diseases

* Lesser prison sentences for the same crimes committed by minorities.

* Less likely to get passed over for a job interview

* Easier time dating

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#152

Post by bakhy »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #148
bakhy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the ground really is that uneven maybe the problem is not the founders, but the system (again, how to change that is a super complicated discussion) don't avoid this discussion, it is essential. it's not complicated. we are all part of the system, and if we all chip in to even the field, things will improve.

I just wanted to make explicit that "changing the system" is difficult, and there are many facets to the problem (and that I recognized that truth). I discuss these issues somewhat regularly with some colleagues, so I feel like I have solutions that work for me (maybe I'll make a blog post sometime, but I am worried I'll just add to the noise).

it's difficult, and multi-faceted, and still it must be tackled. the system is the crux of this issue, there would be no issue if the field were not uneven.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#153

Post by balls187 »

balls187 wrote: post #151
balls187 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. * Innocent until proven guilty (See driving while black) * Citizenship is rarely, if ever, questioned * Friendly relationship with Law Enforcement/Authority * Better health care[1] 1: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/black-kids-get-les...

* Less likely to be assumed a criminal, drug user, or other lower ranking member of society * Less likely to die of curable diseases * Lesser prison sentences for the same crimes committed by minorities. * Less likely to get passed over for a job interview * Easier time dating

* raise interest rates

* Until recently be a credible candidate for president of the us

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#154

Post by hardwaresofton »

bakhy wrote: post #145
hardwaresofton wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I think the outreact YC is doing is amazing, and I applaud them for doing it. I'd rather have this kind of conversation (about the wording of something like this) rather than not have the outreach effort exist at all. Honestly the point of my comment was to do with tact and wording. It's super clear that YC is trying it's best to be accessible to all, and to do the right thing by groups that may feel marginali…

> but it's also divisive to make it seem like a group is inherently more valuable for no reason other than the color of their skin, or life choices, or whatever. it is also the truth, and it is a problem. labelling is like a joke compared to all the things that discriminated groups experience. edit - apologies, i thought you said 'vulnerable'. valuable? where did you get that from?

Well a lot of the current diversity zeitgeist is (mis)represented in terms that are too simplistic.

diversity is good/desirable -> minorities are more valuable than white people at your company (since you clearly already have enough white people) seems to be the point of a lot of blog posts/conversation. This kind of thinking is most clearly visible in when companies state that they try to hire X underrepresented people to some position, as if you just need to get a certain number (and/or when corporations lower meaningful meritocratic barriers to hire people that otherwise wouldn't have been in the ballpark).

"meaningful meritocratic barrier" to me means "show me you can do fizzbuzz", rather than "tell me which ivy you came from"

There is obviously a case to be made for diversity (independent of morality), but most modern literature doesn't seem to address that at any meaningful level of complexity. I discovered this when talking to a colleague who was annoyed with what seemed to be a devaluing of potential hires just because they weren't "diverse" enough.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#155

Post by balls187 »

gagmaker wrote: post #128
djtriptych wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian men are not underrepresented in the tech industry.

True, and guess what it happens in the same time while white men has all the privileges. Weird. Don't you think? :)

Hey great, I (asian man) get to work in tech.

Do I get to raise interest rates?

How about being a credible candidate for US President?

Can I pay money to fuck kids and spend only 5 years in jail?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#156

Post by Mz »

balls187 wrote: post #153
balls187 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Less likely to be assumed a criminal, drug user, or other lower ranking member of society * Less likely to die of curable diseases * Lesser prison sentences for the same crimes committed by minorities. * Less likely to get passed over for a job interview * Easier time dating

* raise interest rates * Until recently be a credible candidate for president of the us

* Have a speech impediment and not be held back, even from high office like president of the us.

(I have rebutted arguments that "It isn't racist to discriminate against blacks for having the black accent because it just proves they are uneducated and inarticulate" by saying "George W. Bush. If articulate speech is really the criteria, how did he ever get to be president? And if we can hire an inarticulate white guy but not an inarticulate black guy, then something in there is still racist somehow, no?")

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#157

Post by lbotos »

balls187 wrote: post #149
lbotos wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm white. I was once 14. I used to bring in all kinds of hacked together computer things to my high school all the time. I'd even bring in a soldering iron and solder at lunch. I was never arrested or questioned or considered a threat. Ahmed Mohammed was considered a threat. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34266389

> I'm white. I was once 14. When was this? I also was once 14, and I look like my name should be Ahmed Mohammed. I too also brought in crazy stuff to school. I was never considered a threat. Ofc this was 1994, and that was well before mass school shootings, and 9/11 (however it was during the height of gang violence and so any perceived gang affiliation was dealt with in similar manner).

Post 9/11

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#158

Post by mojuba »

tptacek wrote: post #138
mojuba wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC is a private business of course, but since they started this initiative, wouldn't it be even more efficient to make YC staff itself more diverse? Rather than doing segregated open hours.

Is a recruiting event at CMU "segregated"? If not, how is this worse?

I have no idea what CMU is, sorry.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#159

Post by bakhy »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #154
bakhy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's also divisive to make it seem like a group is inherently more valuable for no reason other than the color of their skin, or life choices, or whatever. it is also the truth, and it is a problem. labelling is like a joke compared to all the things that discriminated groups experience. edit - apologies, i thought you said 'vulnerable'. valuable? where did you get that from?

Well a lot of the current diversity zeitgeist is (mis)represented in terms that are too simplistic. diversity is good/desirable -> minorities are more valuable than white people at your company (since you clearly already have enough white people) seems to be the point of a lot of blog posts/conversation. This kind of thinking is most clearly visible in when companies state that they try to hire X underrepresented peo…

> diversity is good/desirable -> minorities are more valuable than white people at your company (since you clearly already have enough white people) seems to be the point of a lot of blog posts/conversation.

when blog posts that make such absolutely ridiculous claims get commented on here, then we can discuss that and heartily agree, ok? :D but in this discussion here, you are the one who said that this action implies minority founders are more valuable. this is simply not true.

i do agree that affirmative action is a bit crude, but it's done for a greater social good, by people who recognize the problem, sympathise, and want to help. the field is, after all, uneven. an asymmetric situation that needs asymmetric action to correct it.

Post reply on HN