New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools • Hacker News Board

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#81

Post by userbinator » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 12:36 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #64

userbinator wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don't know if it ever will reach the same level of importance as literacy, because the industry seems to be trying very hard to discourage regular users from ever becoming programmers or even "advanced users"; see the War on General Purpose Computing: http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/civilwar.html http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html I mean, how do you even convince someone that learning to…

Locked down mobile devices do not prevent you from enjoying programming, or sharing in that joy with others. I make a programming app called Codea for iPad. I get users telling me it brings them back to their first days of coding basic, and kids as young as six using it to make games. My forums are full of people sharing their code and creations. In fact, I'd say that it's more accessible because it's on a locked dow…

I know such environments exist, but programs in them aren't really "first-class citizens" of the platform; I'm not saying that people don't like it, but after all there's no mistaking that it's more like playing in a sandbox you can't get out of. "Why do I need this app just to run what I wrote? Why can't I make it do $something_native_apps_can?"

...although perhaps it would be a great time to talk about how things used to be different, when such questions come up.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#82

Post by interpol_p » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 1:05 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #81

interpol_p wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locked down mobile devices do not prevent you from enjoying programming, or sharing in that joy with others. I make a programming app called Codea for iPad. I get users telling me it brings them back to their first days of coding basic, and kids as young as six using it to make games. My forums are full of people sharing their code and creations. In fact, I'd say that it's more accessible because it's on a locked dow…

I know such environments exist, but programs in them aren't really "first-class citizens" of the platform; I'm not saying that people don't like it, but after all there's no mistaking that it's more like playing in a sandbox you can't get out of. "Why do I need this app just to run what I wrote? Why can't I make it do $something_native_apps_can?" ...although perhaps it would be a great time to talk about how things u…

> but programs in them aren't really "first-class citizens" of the platform

But now you are moving the goalposts.

It is irrelevant whether programs are "first-class citizens." It doesn't stop one from enjoying and experiencing programming, and it certainly doesn't prevent someone from making just as complex and interesting programs regardless of the environment in which they are executed.

The point I am arguing from your original post is the following:

> Unfortunately I don't know if it ever will reach the same level of importance as literacy, because the industry seems to be trying very hard to discourage regular users from ever becoming programmers or even "advanced users"; see the War on General Purpose Computing:

I very much disagree that anyone is trying to discourage regular users from becoming programmers. Whether you are in a sandboxed or locked down environment is an irrelevant implementation detail. Virtual machines can be explored on such systems, even if the real ones can't.

(And, as an aside, Codea for iPad can export a user's project into a native app that can be developed further or uploaded to the App Store. So even environments like the iPad can, and have, produced "first-class citizen" applications. In fact, we published the first game coded entirely on iPad in 2010. It has had millions of downloads.)

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#83

Post by throwaway781 » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 8:57 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #55

throwaway781 wrote: post #41

Current math teacher looking to teach computer science. Very excited to see this!

Very cool! What curriculum are you following? And where do you teach?

We are using the EngageNY curriculum. I am teaching 6th grade in Baltimore.