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YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#121

Post by djtriptych »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #92
atg2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Asian" is not a race.

Neither is black or hispanic. The entire debate around 'race' in the US I find is riddled with outdated concepts and semantics. In many developed countries's dialogue on these issues the semantics rarely touch on race anymore as it's quite meaningless and scientifically untenable. Instead when we talk about different peoples in socioeconomic debates by referring to various ethnicities (which are quite flexible, you c…

It's not an accident that America has particular problems with Black/White and Hispanic/White race relations. Comparisons of race relations in America to race relations anywhere else need to be quite careful to identify the correspondences.

The claim that race is too murky a concept to pin down is generally invoked in cases like this; observed preferential treatment for historically disadvantaged races. If race can't exist, the argument implies, neither can racism. Always ask who wins if we allow ourselves to believe this.

The truth is that racism does exist, and we can test for it using methods that are repeatable in experiment. Race is not "meaningless" in this country, and anyone claiming so is selling you something.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#122

Post by 001sky »

tptacek wrote: post #108
tcdent wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

Implicit trust is how to decode 'white privledge' quickly. Point being that it is something to take for granted, unless you have to establish it (or pay for the privledge). But it is very necessary in tech where alot happens by way of informal networking & referrals and lots of heuristic social screening comes into play (buy necessity, not malice). So those who have implicit trust are at a huge advantage (or at least an even playing field). And those that don't are on the ooposite end of that (battling uphill, etc).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#123

Post by gagmaker »

what a crap, pardon my french...

How about Asian or LGBT founders?

didn't it occur to you that claiming diversity you do exactly the opposite?

Suppose, A > B, and you think it's not right. Good for you! But then, you come out and say, We fight for diversity 24/7!! and then you claim X X - save the sign.

If you want best and brightest idea or/and people why DON'T you select best and brightest ideas and/or people?! make it A == B truly, can't you?

Why do you care founders' ethnic origin or who they sleep with?

Do you really think things like affirmative action work for the best of nation?

Given all is equal, you'd have to choose one candidate over another. According to affirmative action, you choose minority. Good!

But in reality, 'all is equal' almost never happen. And one (or two) would have to choose minority even if it is clear it would be a wrong choice. It is done once and again in fear of 'social workers' who are eager to 'earn' one (or two) thousand grand taking you to the court.

last, but not least, having 'open Hours for Black and Hispanic' makes you very vulnerable in eyes of, say LGBT social workers. They will gladly take you in court and, forget presumption of innocence, you would be the one to proof you didn't violate their 'rights'. And chances are you will fail.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#124

Post by tptacek »

001sky wrote: post #122
tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

Implicit trust is how to decode 'white privledge' quickly. Point being that it is something to take for granted, unless you have to establish it (or pay for the privledge). But it is very necessary in tech where alot happens by way of informal networking & referrals and lots of heuristic social screening comes into play (buy necessity, not malice). So those who have implicit trust are at a huge advantage (or at least…

Another example that should be nearer to the hearts of anti-YC partisans: the "looking for people that look like Zuckerberg" bias Paul Graham accidentally evoked a few years back.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#125

Post by tcdent »

bakhy wrote: post #107
tcdent wrote: post #42

The explicit nature of identifying these groups by race is off-putting, mostly because it is short-sighted. Racial identification can't be the solution if the ultimate goal is to end racial disparity. This obviously isn't the first or last program YC implements, but as some point the message has got to become more sophisticated to accomplish the core goal. YC is a numbers game. This simply encourages stereotypically…

i disagree with the anti-identification claim. if we indeed do not "see race", then how can we even talk about racism, let alone fix it? this may seem trivial, but it is important. as a gay guy, i've heard similar arguments from people (like, "i don't care about sexuality, as long as you're a good person"), and i believe in good intentions, but many people do "see race", and that creates a social situation where peop…

What is the ultimate goal you wish to achieve? Do you want to be known as the "gay black guy", or just another human friend?

What if your sexual interests go beyond current definitions; are we to add a new slice to the pie chart simply for one person's identification?

The trans-gender, sexual-orientation debate gets specific, but it's irrelevant in the end.

As I advised a kid confused about his orientation recently: it doesn't matter what the media labels as OK, it doesn't matter what your family labels as OK, listen to yourself and come up with your own (potentially-unique) ideas and then get on with your life. Nobody is going to tell you how to do it as well as you can tell yourself.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#126

Post by tptacek »

atg2 wrote: post #119
pavel_lishin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an event for black and hispanic folks doesn't preclude them from having an event for asian folks. Not every event has to be pan-inclusive.

You say that like making an event 'inclusive' is some kind of chore. In fact, what we're talking about is stopping people at the door because they have the wrong skin color.

That is not at all what is being done here; in fact, that's a grievous misrepresentation of what they're doing.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#127

Post by bakhy »

robot wrote: post #64

Hand-holding minorities label them even more as a group that needs to be helped. They should be encouraged to be successful in the "same" environment as others and treated the same. The moment you do something "for" them is the moment you label them as that group that needs hand-holding even more. I don't think they need special treatment this way. It is done by good intention, but it does not need saying, you're bla…

so, affirmative action should not be done, and structural racism should not be combated, just so that we do not offend the pride of the discriminated by labelling, or? this is ridiculous. by this logic we might have to ignore racism completely. e.g. if you say that cops in the US are more prone to killing unarmed black suspects, you're also pointing out that black people need help. i guess we should not do that either :D

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#128

Post by gagmaker »

djtriptych wrote: post #49
colmvp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice that it's Black and Hispanic, and not Asian? At least Asian women might have dedicated office hours ("We will start with Black and Hispanic founders and if successful we hope to launch future Open Office Hours for Women, Veterans, and International founders.") Always seems like Asian men in the U.S. get the 'worst' of being a minority. Neither the societal advantages of white majority, nor the ability to acces…

Asian men are not underrepresented in the tech industry.

True, and guess what it happens in the same time while white men has all the privileges.

Weird. Don't you think? :)

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#129

Post by [deleted] »

78666cdc wrote: post #83
tptacek wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you spent any time in or near a predominantly black church? There's one on my corner. There's white people there all the time. And did you really just suggest that "women's shelters" somehow advantage women over men? Suggested Google search: [lucky ducky comic]. You might also enjoy the editorial cartoon stylings of Stan Kelly.

You're putting words in my mouth. But if you want to talk about that, then yes, there is more support for homeless women than there is for men. But that is beside the point here. My point was to list a handful of the many counterexamples to "it is white male time all the time", which is a silly claim, at least as stated. Strike that example off the list, then. It doesn't change the original comment's point.

[deleted]

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#130

Post by IkmoIkmo »

djtriptych wrote: post #121
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is black or hispanic. The entire debate around 'race' in the US I find is riddled with outdated concepts and semantics. In many developed countries's dialogue on these issues the semantics rarely touch on race anymore as it's quite meaningless and scientifically untenable. Instead when we talk about different peoples in socioeconomic debates by referring to various ethnicities (which are quite flexible, you c…

It's not an accident that America has particular problems with Black/White and Hispanic/White race relations. Comparisons of race relations in America to race relations anywhere else need to be quite careful to identify the correspondences. The claim that race is too murky a concept to pin down is generally invoked in cases like this; observed preferential treatment for historically disadvantaged races. If race can't…

Bullshit. Black people aren't discriminated because they're from a 'black race', there is no black race. They're discriminated against because their skin color is black. Discrimination on the basis of skin color can (and obviously does) exist without the existence of an concept of race.

As for hispanic, that's an ethnonym, i.e. an ethnic group, that's exactly my point. This is how we talk in say the Netherlands about what you call the 'racial debate', on the basis of ethnicities like hispanic. And these ethnicities can indeed comprise of black peoples, and within that context we can and do, all the time, talk about racism and discrimination, but that's wholly different from the notion that the human race has different subraces, a black, white, yellow whatever, that's a ridiculously silly and outdated sociological model and anyone claiming otherwise is terribly ignorant.

As for 'who wins if we allow ourselves to believe', really? Do you really base your beliefs on who wins, rather than on what is true?

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