YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders • Hacker News Board

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#111

Post by bakhy » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

tcdent wrote: post #106

johnathanNYC wrote: post #87

As someone who is both (afro-latino), I'm really excited about this. After reading the majority of the comments, I'm a little disappointed. It seems that many do not understand that being white and male in the United States, by default, affords many privileges that monitories struggle to obtain. If there any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. Curious to why the word Hispanic was used instead of Latino. If…

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

why do you think the lines are the problem? certainly, race is a thing. the problem is IMO in the asymmetry of power and opportunity between the slices of the pie chart. that races exist is undeniable, but racism does not stem just from acknowledging the existence of the variety of human race.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#112

Post by pavornyoh » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

Is it weird that I understood this as just trying to reach out to Blacks and Hispanics/encouragement and not hand holding? Call me crazy but as a minority, this thought of not getting in say Tech by minorities for example is taking to the extreme. Has anyone ever considered perhaps, their background just didn't qualify them for a particular role? What about attitude? Mindset? Alot goes into getting what you want. You just have to work hard at it and prove doubters wrong.. :)

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#113

Post by pavel_lishin » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:52 PM UTC

atg2 wrote: post #100

dragonwriter wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian is as much a race as White or Black is. ( All races are social constructed with culturally-ascribed boundaries, so really, anything that is generally perceived and treated as a race is a race; even if you restrict it to three "classical" races, White, Black, and Asian are pretty much the modern names for Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid.)

My point is, what about all the other people? The world is not divided into White, Black, Asian and Spanish-speaking. There are Indians, Central Asians, Arabs, Persians... Even 19th century racialists in their ignorant understanding of the world didn't lump 2/3 of the world's population into a miscellaneous category.

Having an event for black and hispanic folks doesn't preclude them from having an event for asian folks. Not every event has to be pan-inclusive.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#114

Post by bakhy » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:53 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #44

6stringmerc wrote: post #30

You planning to open up such a thing for the handicapped as well? I mean, until the ACA came along, I pretty much took a risk-aversion pattern career path so I wouldn't get thrown into the "prexisting condition" abyss, and I'm probably not alone here. Personally speaking, a lot of handicapped folk I've met through the years are quite clever, innovative, and determined, because starting life at the plate with a 3-2 co…

> You planning to open up such a thing for the handicapped as well? This is part of the problem with things like this - while good intentioned, it inevitably alienates another equally oppressed group. Why can't we just have "Office Hours" and make it absolutely clear it's for anyone -- and actually follow through with the intent. It just seems silly to says "these here are for only this one small group - and that's h…

would this be an example of the Nirvana fallacy? actual good work is being done, and you're saying that it's bad because it's not better? but then again, your suggestion is not really better. you can't fight racism by pretending there is no race, and if you acknowledge there's an unfair asymmetry in society, then the response must also be asymmetric.

if a person is ill, you don't go around giving medicine to everybody so that the healthy wouldn't feel excluded.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#115

Post by djtriptych » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

78666cdc wrote: post #85

djtriptych wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your conclusion (race doesn't matter) is inconsistent with your evidence (black churches and communities exist).

Where did I say that race doesn't matter?

Wait are you saying that race does matter in America?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#116

Post by lbotos » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 7:55 PM UTC

tcdent wrote: post #106

johnathanNYC wrote: post #87

As someone who is both (afro-latino), I'm really excited about this. After reading the majority of the comments, I'm a little disappointed. It seems that many do not understand that being white and male in the United States, by default, affords many privileges that monitories struggle to obtain. If there any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. Curious to why the word Hispanic was used instead of Latino. If…

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

I'm white. I was once 14. I used to bring in all kinds of hacked together computer things to my high school all the time. I'd even bring in a soldering iron and solder at lunch. I was never arrested or questioned or considered a threat.

Ahmed Mohammed was considered a threat. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34266389

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#117

Post by tcdent » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 8:00 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #108

tcdent wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

That's really interesting. It sounds like that is very much a symptom of ingrained racism; something these people have been encouraged to do for most of their lives.

I grew up in a pretty diverse neighborhood, so I know the people to fear are not divided along racial lines. Someone who came from a wealthier area would probably not have that opportunity.

To the point I made elsewhere on this page, does a program like this help to reduce that perception of inferiority, or just get people riled up about someone getting a perceived handout?

If the problem really is circumstantial, education seems like the obvious solution to me. In your specific example, the symptoms are fear driven; the more diverse experiences someone has, they more they will see how little there really is to fear. Travel is one of those obvious things that reduces bigotry.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#118

Post by lbotos » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 8:01 PM UTC

arturventura wrote: post #9

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm just trying to find a justification. Having something that says you can only can come in if you are "Black, Hispanic, Women, Veterans, and International founders" kinda racist as fuck? It sounds exactly like segregation to me. Again, not trying to be a troll. Not American, just trying to understand.

Recently in my workplace (I'm white/male, 11 person team is lead by 2 white males) we've been working on refocusing our branding on "Tech Entrepreneurs". Quick. Name the first person you think of when you here that? What do they look like? Probably white, twenty something, male. This was a problem for our team because we are trying to target more than that. We know we are, but communicating that and reaching more people is hard. It's cemented in our bias, but yeah, still, we realize that "tech" is a lot of "younger white dudes". This effort by YC is just trying to change that by making a safe place for people outside of "the norm" to be acknowledged and encouraged.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#119

Post by atg2 » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #113

atg2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is, what about all the other people? The world is not divided into White, Black, Asian and Spanish-speaking. There are Indians, Central Asians, Arabs, Persians... Even 19th century racialists in their ignorant understanding of the world didn't lump 2/3 of the world's population into a miscellaneous category.

Having an event for black and hispanic folks doesn't preclude them from having an event for asian folks. Not every event has to be pan-inclusive.

You say that like making an event 'inclusive' is some kind of chore. In fact, what we're talking about is stopping people at the door because they have the wrong skin color.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#120

Post by tptacek » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 8:03 PM UTC

tcdent wrote: post #117

tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example: I have an African American neighbor one block over that I see regularly. He works in IT/devops. Like every IT person, he gets yelled at by random people at work all the time; it's a high-stress job. But when he gets visibly frustrated, he's The Angry Black Man. Dipshit coworkers complain that they don't feel safe. It is an example of a white male privilege that being frustrated and swearing at your computer…

That's really interesting. It sounds like that is very much a symptom of ingrained racism; something these people have been encouraged to do for most of their lives. I grew up in a pretty diverse neighborhood, so I know the people to fear are not divided along racial lines. Someone who came from a wealthier area would probably not have that opportunity. To the point I made elsewhere on this page, does a program like…

The idea behind the phone call is that it welcomes people into the field. If we want to couch these issues in the emotions of the victims, rather than the (often inadvertent) perpetrators, then yes: it's mostly about ameliorating "fear". I don't know that we need much psychoanalysis, though. Mostly what YC is doing is just neighborly common sense.

Bluntly: people getting "riled up" about "perceived handouts" are complaining in bad faith, and their opinions shouldn't be taken into account. The 20 minute phone call YC is offering today is the least of the excuses people could generate about the persecution of the majority. If it's not this, it's something else.