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YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#71

Post by mwseibel »

tcdent wrote: post #42

The explicit nature of identifying these groups by race is off-putting, mostly because it is short-sighted. Racial identification can't be the solution if the ultimate goal is to end racial disparity. This obviously isn't the first or last program YC implements, but as some point the message has got to become more sophisticated to accomplish the core goal. YC is a numbers game. This simply encourages stereotypically…

You make some really good points here. Here are my thoughts: members of these groups (race, sex, nationality) are being identified and negative stereotypes are being applied to them everyday. There has the be a distinction between giving people an explicit benefit based on race/sex/etc and doing outreach to members of different groups but then having an open and common application process for all.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#72

Post by tptacek »

78666cdc wrote: post #38
justizin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, at least in America, all of the time is 'white male time', and people of color and women often feel intimidated in spaces that are dominated in this way, so efforts are made to encourage a focus on marginalized people.

>all of the time is "white male time" Like black churches and communities, professional women's societies, women's shelters, scholarships for women, women's clubs at schools, and so on? In elementary schools, where >90% of teachers are female? Among psychology majors, with 60-70% women? Do you really suggest that it is always "white male time" everywhere? Go ask a white kid growing up in a mostly black, poor neighbor…

Have you spent any time in or near a predominantly black church? There's one on my corner. There's white people there all the time.

And did you really just suggest that "women's shelters" somehow advantage women over men?

Suggested Google search: [lucky ducky comic]. You might also enjoy the editorial cartoon stylings of Stan Kelly.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#73

Post by hardwaresofton »

First, I want to state that I'm glad YC is making such a step to help struggling founders. While I don't run a startup, I'm super divided on this post, and here's why:

A) It seems both condescending and racist at the same time (i.e. you're a minority in SV? surely you're doing terrible - let us help. You're white in SV? you must be doing great, move along we're not looking to help you) -- As others have stated, it's also partly because of the specified groups.

B) If the ground really is that uneven maybe the problem is not the founders, but the system (again, how to change that is a super complicated discussion)

I feel like a more tactful way to put out such a call for people who would like help might be something like:

"YC is putting on a special series of office hours for struggling startups. In past series we've found that certain groups of people were underrepresented, and we'd like for that not to be the case, so we are going to prioritize the following groups: . This doesn't mean anyone who is not in those groups is unwelcome."

As others have noted, getting away from the group listing would be even better. Maybe just making a call for anyone who feels like they have been "marginalized" in the SV startup community, or aren't receiving enough help might suffice (without making a laundry list of underrepresented people).

I have many opinions on the whole "diversity" debate, but I think my most defensible opinion is for organizations to aim for population-parity demographic distributions, and work to upset any limiting functions that might be skewing your sector away from the wider population's distributions (again, how to do this is highly debated, and I have a ton of my own opinions on the subject, but I digress).

I've also intentionally left out my own race/cultural group/whatever in this comment, but make sure to check your own biases at the door - I could be caucasian, latino, african american, asian, lgbt, trans, whatever .

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#74

Post by IkmoIkmo »

mojuba wrote: post #53
tcdent wrote: post #42

The explicit nature of identifying these groups by race is off-putting, mostly because it is short-sighted. Racial identification can't be the solution if the ultimate goal is to end racial disparity. This obviously isn't the first or last program YC implements, but as some point the message has got to become more sophisticated to accomplish the core goal. YC is a numbers game. This simply encourages stereotypically…

Exactly this. By announcing separate open hours for groups B and C, don't they deliberately make their normal hours even more A?

I don't see how, no. Normal hours are still accessible to B and C, too, only now B and C do better in 'normal hours' as they've got a bit of a leg up. Over time B and C become role models, further increasing the presence of B and C in 'normal hours'. At least on paper.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#75

Post by djtriptych »

78666cdc wrote: post #38
justizin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, at least in America, all of the time is 'white male time', and people of color and women often feel intimidated in spaces that are dominated in this way, so efforts are made to encourage a focus on marginalized people.

>all of the time is "white male time" Like black churches and communities, professional women's societies, women's shelters, scholarships for women, women's clubs at schools, and so on? In elementary schools, where >90% of teachers are female? Among psychology majors, with 60-70% women? Do you really suggest that it is always "white male time" everywhere? Go ask a white kid growing up in a mostly black, poor neighbor…

Your conclusion (race doesn't matter) is inconsistent with your evidence (black churches and communities exist).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#76

Post by officialchicken »

tptacek wrote: post #67
officialchicken wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever you are confused about our culture, just try following the money... problem + buzz + market = opportunity. These are good capitalist VC's acting normally, nothing unusual about it. And if I didn't miss it already, I wouldn't be surprised at a diversity-focused startup fund announcement some time very soon. In this light, this announcement is probably a test/market research for that fund.

Do you have some special insight about YC you can relate to us showing why that isn't just a bunch of stuff you made up?

He wasn't asking about YC, he was asking about the culture.

Is there a reason you're so defensive? I can find links to YC "trying to open markets", but it's 2015, and I don't think you are dumb.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#78

Post by Alupis »

tptacek wrote: post #69
mojuba wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. By announcing separate open hours for groups B and C, don't they deliberately make their normal hours even more A?

I do not follow this logic. There are minority and women YC founders who already get the (A) hours.

What the parent is getting at, I think, is that by having explicitly set-aside hours for groups 'B' and 'C', it will create a stigma that groups 'B' and 'C' must attend only those designated hours -- effectively making the "normal" office hours for the "elite' group 'A'.

It seems to me, no matter what way you look at it, separated office hours will perpetuate segregation and bigotry, instead of the desired effect.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#79

Post by dragonwriter »

atg2 wrote: post #61
djtriptych wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian men are not underrepresented in the tech industry.

"Asian" is not a race.

Asian is as much a race as White or Black is. (All races are social constructed with culturally-ascribed boundaries, so really, anything that is generally perceived and treated as a race is a race; even if you restrict it to three "classical" races, White, Black, and Asian are pretty much the modern names for Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid.)

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#80

Post by [deleted] »

mindcrime wrote: post #63

I think this is a good move, and glad to see YC doing it. And this is coming from somebody who is neither black nor hispanic. I mean, I get the whole "isn't this just affirmative action and isn't AA bad?" thing, I really do. But this is a private business, not a government agency, and they are free to try and address issues of equality and what-not in whichever way they see fit. And when you're part of a group that i…

[deleted]
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