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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

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Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#251

Post by pdeuchler »

dovereconomics wrote: post #237
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crony capitalism still is not capitalism. This reminds me of some people who pointed out that communism was never implemented and all the totalitarian regimes were still in the socialism phase. A phase which was obviously never going to be replaced with the communist utopia. This is just a delay tactic. We all know what we talk about when we say "communism" and it's the same for "capitalism" - we mean the real-worl…

Not really. Anyone with a background on classical economics realizes the U.S is much closer to socialism than capitalism. The existence of 'prices' and greed doesn't imply it's capitalism.

Exactly. The US (and to a greater extent, the West) never really grew out of mercantilism... the "capitalism" only shines through when it's convenient propaganda (spreading democracy and capitalism, one bomb at a time!) or when there's vast amounts of money to be made in ethically dubious circumstances (like doing business with Nazis) and some sort of justification is needed.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#252

Post by muraiki »

adventured wrote: post #109
nickthemagicman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that really a legit solution? Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' and theres lots of people like his dad who really want work, and are loyal and hardworking. But there's not enough jobs to go around and the amount keeps decreasing d…

Not enough jobs to go around? I disagree. There are ~5.8 million job openings as of the end of July. The highest level maybe in 15 years [1]. The unemployed worker per job opening ratio is also at the lowest in 15 years [2]. The U6 unemployment rate for people that have some college is 5.x%; the unemployment rate for people with a four year degree is 2.x%. There have been eight million full-time jobs added in just fo…

Can you give sources for your stats? For instance, when I looked at the BLS for the unemployment rate for people with four year degrees this morning, it did not appear to be U6 (which was listed as a separate metric) and furthermore only accounted for people who were at least 25 years old.

I think that it's reasonable to assume that the average college grad is If you take people with high school or higher education who are > 25, there are 5.5 million unemployed. I'd be curious to know what that number changes to if you lower the age to 22 or so.

See http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#253

Post by pdeuchler »

dragonwriter wrote: post #242
dovereconomics wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cronyism, referring to a system where incompetent agents are given special favors, doesn't survive in the free market - merciless competition destroys any underperfoming organization. Cronyism only exists when competition doesn't work by means of a government. Get some politicians, create regulations, build a monopoly. No matter how uncompetitive it is, you're still a billionaire.

> Cronyism, referring to a system where incompetent agents are given special favors, doesn't survive in the free market The "free market" in which that is a defensible claim is a counterfactual construct that is sometimes useful as a simplified analytic model, but fundamentally incompatible with the behavior of real human beings and conditions in the real world. > merciless competition destroys any underperfoming org…

By this argument we should just accept that "communism" involves the widespread murder of political enemies, as that has always happened in "communist" countries.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#254

Post by marincounty »

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

I feel for your father, and mother. I hope they weather the storm.

I was going to mention, that if they are proactive; they might be able to keep their health care expenditures reasonable if they apply to Minnesota's department of health and human services. They will need to spend down assets, but they can usually keep their house, and car. (I know in California, the quality of medical care has gotten much better with the funds from the health care act--much better.)

I just noticed that Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty's (R) recent executive order intended to stop the implementation of federal health care reform in Minnesota? I just don't get his thinking? He's refusing millions in free money?

Again, I hope your father doesn't loose his job. I went to Sonoma State university, and all the business graduates went straight HP to fill out job applications. The company's corporate office was within throwing distance. After I graduated, the number one question was, "When are you going to apply to HP?" I hated anything related to tech back then, but the people who got jobs seemed pretty happy. Back then it was a pretty secure job.

I still cringe whenever I hear Carlie Fiorina brag about her tenure at HP. You don't brag when you pretty much ruin a company?

I had an difficult relationship with my father too.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#255

Post by fwn »

Apocryphon wrote: post #245
dovereconomics wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Anyone with a background on classical economics realizes the U.S is much closer to socialism than capitalism. The existence of 'prices' and greed doesn't imply it's capitalism.

So neoliberalism is socialism?

If you are implying the US is somehow close to what neoliberal thinkers would propose, that couldn't be more wrong.

Neoliberalism doesn't mean watered down free-market liberalism. The term describes a certain movement in (classical) liberal thought which wanted to seperate itself from former thinkers primarily based on the time they where living in.

While those thinkers have little in common, they genuinely disliked a productive state (as in the production of goods or the delivery of a service), cartels, interventions in the price mechanism etc.

All of that is far away from what the US or European countries are currently doing.

At least in Europe it's also used as a meaningless buzzword to scare people who think that the prefix "neo" means evil.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#256

Post by bluedino »

herojan wrote: post #98

Automation was supposed to make us all work less, not get everyone fired from decent, safe jobs.

Between virtualization, 16-core CPU's, and "the cloud", businesses have been replacing servers at a 1:10 ratio. Good for businesses that buy servers, bad for companies that sell servers like Dell and HP.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#257

Post by VonGuard »

jfoutz wrote: post #23
joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This.

He has the contacts. Make sure he takes his rolodex when he leaves. Day one after layoffs, call those clients up and say "Hey, they laid me off. Want me on contract?"

Even if he only gets 3 or 4 clients from this, the money they paid HP now goes to him, and it will be a LOT more than his salary. His client contacts are his core IP. Use em.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#258

Post by bluedino »

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

That's how I feel when the local factories lay workers off. Guys and gals with 30 years in at the same plant, assembling parts day in and day out. On their feet for 12 hours a day, the factory shuts down and what is there for them to do? You might lay 3,000 people off from a plant and all they can do is work at Wal-mart or McDonalds.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#259

Post by Domenic_S »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #193
emp_zealoth wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

>Im just aghast how shitty your country is. We have a lot of social programs for the poor, especially in regards to health. No its not Euro-style universal healthcare, but this idea that they'll starve in the streets if they lose their jobs is ridiculous. That's on top of COBRA, which allow you to stay on your employers plan for a bit while you work out a new provider. Or subsidized ACA exchange insurance. We are dow…

> The real problem here is that I find most middle-class people have no idea how welfare works.

I got a taste when I applied for PFL in California when we had a baby. The scale of people the State serves is insane, and navigating the system could be a full-time job in itself.

(PFL is California's supplemental program that pays some fraction of your salary for family leave - in my case new child bonding)

I took 3 weeks leave, and on the last Friday got a phone call from the PFL office: "We have a question about your PFL application, and if you don't return our call today we will deny your claim". I call, and after battling the phone tree got, "Our system is over capacity. Please try again later click". I finally got through at the end of the day via email.

I finally got paid the first day I returned from leave (!). Luckily for me I wasn't depending on the money or else my kids would have been eating rice. What a nightmare. I don't envy anyone who has to use social services.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#260

Post by monksy »

spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #164
BorgHunter wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on one's jurisdiction, in the U.S. at least. For example, in Illinois, non-competes are generally enforceable.[0] In California, they are generally not.[1] [0] http://www.isba.org/ibj/2012/01/lawpulse/employmentcovenants... [1] http://www.cnet.com/news/calif-supreme-court-finds-noncompet...

Even when you have been made redundant?

Yep. Even then. I've had a company that put one on my employment, do a mass layoff and even put a reminder that I signed the document in the termination letter.
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