14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School • Hacker News Board

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#471

Post by twoodfin » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:25 PM UTC

PretzelFisch wrote: post #456

twoodfin wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the teacher level, they are underpaid. My girlfriend is a high school teacher w/ 4 years experience, a masters degree in her topic, and works 12+ hours a day (not kidding, seriously all day). She makes $35k / year. How much do teachers in her school system who have 25 years experience make? The union-mandated tenure system, which prevents young, talented teachers from making even vaguely competitive salaries, but…

If you put more money into the system, you could be pretty sure that the teachers would not see more than a dime of it. Tenure is what prevents schools from removing a higher cost experienced teacher and replacing them with a cheaper no experienced teachers.

Microsoft and Google don't fire all their higher cost experienced engineers in favor of cheaper fresh graduates every year. They also don't forbid new engineers from making more than any longer-tenured ones.

Why is tenure-based compensation an efficient use of dollars in primary education but not elsewhere?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#472

Post by eropple » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:25 PM UTC

txru wrote: post #318

bargl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the school and the police had acted in the correct way this would be no big deal. Hey, we have a device here that could be a bomb. Police show up, call bomb specialist. Bomb specialist laughs in a few peoples faces, the school apologizes, the kid keeps tinkering. But no they had to go and dig in. Which makes this really wrong on their part. I hate it when organizations take a stance around stupidity.

Or even better- start by quietly calling him to the principal's office. Ask him about his clock. Tell him people were thinking he might be wanting to pull some bomb pranks, and that would be a very bad idea. Ask him to tell his teachers the day before the next time he wants to show off his gadgetry. Send him back to class.

Or don't do that, either, because it is not right to assume people are going to pull off bomb hoaxes. (Doubly so when the only real reason for the suspicion is skin color.)

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#473

Post by kdamken » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:25 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #375

cschneid wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the teacher level, they are underpaid. My girlfriend is a high school teacher w/ 4 years experience, a masters degree in her topic, and works 12+ hours a day (not kidding, seriously all day). She makes $35k / year. If she wasn't lucky enough to have an engineer paycheck behind her life, she simply wouldn't be able to do the job. It's likely that funding gets allocated in stupid ways, but the whole process is inher…

At the teacher level, they are underpaid. My girlfriend is a high school teacher w/ 4 years experience, a masters degree in her topic, and works 12+ hours a day (not kidding, seriously all day). She makes $35k / year. How much do teachers in her school system who have 25 years experience make? The union-mandated tenure system, which prevents young, talented teachers from making even vaguely competitive salaries, but…

This - I know teachers with 25 years experience making close to six figures, which seems fairly insane.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#474

Post by baldfat » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:26 PM UTC

msandford wrote: post #423

baldfat wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Attach a specific dollar amount to a student. Allow that student to go to whichever school they want. End of story. Allow it to go where there is little to no public over sight, no public school board or checks and balances, under performing scores, teachers paid $20,000 less with no pension, and CEOs making millions. Charter Schools are a part of the problem with American education. Sure some Charter Schools are g…

Public schools also do plenty of dumb things. It's not as though charter schools have a lock on this. A lot of people want "vouchers" so that private schools are more affordable. And plenty of private schools have a good track record, while having similar per-pupil costs as public schools. If it costs $1000/student/month irrespective of if a child goes to a public school or a private school, why does the state really…

Charter Schools = They take 100% of the money from the public school and the money follows the student.

> why does the state really care which one the child attends?

Well I as a tax payer cares. If those school fare even worst and the administration and CEO/President of the foundations makes millions at the expense of children there is a concern.

Public Schools work and have worked for decades. We have a problem with inner city schools and a big part is unfair funding, but killing public schools and give it over to various schools with no public oversight just government over sight is scary. We vote on our School Boards and Directors. We can protest and get Administrators removed. Can't do that to these Charters School. Also privatizing schools will make being a teacher an even worst job.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#475

Post by ZachWick » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:29 PM UTC

This hits close to home for me too, and I am as WASP-y as it gets.

Just over a year ago I was flying to the middle of US with some prototypes for an agriculural automation system in my checked luggage. Going through DTW and O'Hare to my final destination was fine and went without incident. On my way back, again with a checked luggage bag of protypes and tools, this little airport in northwest IA got evacauted and I was very forcibly questioned about why I was flying with these things.

What struck me was that the larger airports (DTW and O'Hare) couldn't have cared less, but this 5-gate airport in IA freaked out that somebody flying with three laptops in his carryon would also have a bag of tools and equipment.

The best part out of all of this was after everything was cleared up, I asked the head TSA person what I should do in the future to prevent getting searched and interrogated. His answer was "just open your bag and show the luggage agent what is in it." I still don't understand how that would help - I envision that the conversation would go something like "Hi, these look like pipe bombs. They aren't. You can trust me." and I would immediately be detained.

(Edited for formatting)

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#476

Post by peu4000 » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:29 PM UTC

owen_griffiths wrote: post #324

piqufoh wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. To quote the Police spokesman; "He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation" and "The concern was, what was this thing built for?" Why shouldn't he make his own clock?! Why does there need to be a 'broader explanation'? How can one develop an interest in anything if you must first provide an adequate explanation? sigh

And those guys learning to fly the planes without the landing, why can't that just be an interest! With terrorism, if you want to avoid false negatives, you are going to have a lot of false positives. NB I totally agree it would be a douche move to charge this kid with some BS, but investigating unusual behavior is much more understandable.

Right, but this is a child who is an American citizen, not a Saudi who's been in the country for a few months.

I mean, I can't imagine what kind of monster automatically jumps to bomb when a kid makes a clock. Is that how we want to live, constantly being suspicious of everyone different?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#477

Post by strangecasts » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

joeclark77 wrote: post #444

So... kid with an Arabic name, whose father is a belligerent Islamist known to the townspeople to rail against imagined anti-Muslim racists in the town square, shows up at school with a homemade electronic device with a timer on the front of it. He takes someone's bad advice to conceal it under his clothing, and walks into a classroom where it starts beeping . I think reasonable people can understand why the police m…

Reading between the lines though, maybe the article's use of "arrested" just means they took the kid home to his parents.

He was cuffed and interrogated: https://twitter.com/OfficalPrajwol/status/644011809351962625...

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#478

Post by pfg » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

unfamiliar wrote: post #442

Something doesn't seem quite right about this story. He made a clock and then chose to store it in a metal briefcase with the numbers on the outside. In other words, he built something that looks exactly like a bomb from a movie: briefcase with red numbers on it. Maybe this appearance was entirely accidental; but I would bet that he originally intended it to look like a bomb, probably for humour.

Where are you getting the "numbers on the outside" bit from? I didn't read/hear that anywhere.

Also, it was a pencil case, this one specifically: http://i.imgur.com/1SZH7JM.jpg

Doesn't exactly scream "dangerous bomb", does it?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#479

Post by ChuckMcM » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

This sort of thing is very sad, and a symptom of a larger problem. School district policy is a largely political process with a variety of actors with their agendas involved. Making effective change involves people with children in those schools coming together and making their opinions known. We have had a couple of successes in the bay area using NextDoor as a communication portal for this sort of activism.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#480

Post by tschlossmacher » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 4:31 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #427

austenallred wrote: post #143

This hits way too close to home. Not because I have brown skin, or because I've ever been arrested for making "a bomb" that is not a bomb, but because when you're that age you're constantly surrounded and disciplined by people who don't understand you. Or what you're doing. Or why it's cool. I'd be willing to bet part of the reasoning around his arrest is, "Why would a student need to make his own clock?" I wish I co…

I would like to do a little more than reach out to him. He is a nerd and we should protect members of our tribe who are in trouble. Can we make a go found me for getting him into a private school?

AMAZING IDEA.