Microsoft is Dead • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#201

Post by bartsimpson007 » Sat, Apr 07, 2007, 11:25 PM UTC

jjrs wrote: post #99

bartsimpson007 wrote: post #69

Paul, I have great respect for you. But I think you contradit yourself a bit when you say this "..everyone can see the desktop is over. It now seems inevitable that applications will live on the webÂnot just email, but everything, right up to Photoshop". That by itself is a accuate and I can agree with. But you go on to rant about how Apple has put MS on the run and how you fund people that use Mac etc etc. Don't yo…

He basically said that all they have is the desktop...but that even that market is getting chewed away too. microsoft can be getting hit by web apps and competing desktops simultaneously...no contradiction there. He just chose to choose one as a bigger factor than the other, that's all.

To rephrase, does Paul suggest that Apple is dead as well? If not, how are they going to survive according to paul in the Google Apps/Web 2.0 Era?

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#202

Post by Goladus » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 12:07 AM UTC

danielha wrote: post #81

jellerbee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the power Microsoft had to shut down people where "true innovation" came from? and who or what stopped them from doing this? What is the difference between "true innovation" and -- I don't even know how to ask this exactly -- "untrue innovation"?

They had the ability to throw their weight around -- and they did. One popular example: competing browsers such as Netscape or Opera hardly stood a chance against an integrated IE in Windows. What changed this landscape? A few things, one of which was US v Microsoft.

Lotus 123 and WordPerfect were also crushed by Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#203

Post by marksashton » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 12:28 AM UTC

dougo wrote: post #175

marksashton wrote: post #119

It's intersting that you highlight GMAIL as the point where Google became scary. If anthing, GMAIL is another example of how Google's efforts outside of Search have largely failed...at least by the standard they set with Search. I used tried to find the latest marketshare numbers using Google but could't find anything current :) but as of the middle of last year they had about 2% of the Web mail market. Hmmm... Huge…

2% is not bad for a product that's still "beta".

LOL! Let's see...three years of beta... Talk about plausible deniability. Hey, we can't vouch for the quality. It's only beta! :)

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#204

Post by tapp » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 12:33 AM UTC

With regard to the thesis Microsoft is Dead and it was Google that killed them, some food for thought:

How Microsoft could crush Google in one easy step: http://tinyurl.com/2y8dbh

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#205

Post by pythonic » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 1:23 AM UTC

Paul Graham, you are so Not Enterprisey. Thank You!

What some of the (ok, us) "older" folks don't realize is that the younger generation will bring their technology to work with them and it will eat away at the corporate desktop from within despite all the "we need a big vendor to cover our asses when the Fed regulators come a knockin'" attitudes that prevail in that world. And IBM is still there to beat them down from above.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#206

Post by Richard » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 1:50 AM UTC

I would like to accept that MS is dead, but I can't until MacOS and Linux start making a better showing in my webserver logs. MS can't die as long as they still have a lock on the end user.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#207

Post by ynotds » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 2:04 AM UTC

25 years ago I grabbed a job writing for ComputerWorld Australia and quickly settled on a methodology of getting two more names from anybody I spoke to. Within months I had had contact with just about everybody in the local computer industry with the exception of IBM. No leads led there, at least not until much later when I heard from Boyd Munro who had been our IBM rep back when I was learning to program (Assembler) and to analyse and design systems, but even he did not provide much in the way of links back to IBM as he was busy with his own software company by then.

A generation later "They're in a different world." clearly applies to M$ the way it did to IBM in 1982, though IBM's shadow was still large enough to inspire Apple's 1984 commercial.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#208

Post by bitemebiteme » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 2:17 AM UTC

It's pretty obvious to the MILLIONS of developers and hackers that not only survive but thrive in the Windows world that you really have ignored them for your entire career. You live in one ecosystem we live in another,

The main difference between us and you is that you feel it necessary to throw stones at us (or in this case verbal diarrhea) every so often and we are happy to let you live in your world, and respect you for it, while we happily go about our business shaking our heads at how absolutely uninformed you are about our world.

You are part of the problem not part of the solution.

See you in a couple of years when you pop your head out of your hole and shit all over us again.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#209

Post by JMiao » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 2:18 AM UTC

Elfan wrote: post #149

JMiao wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a fair analysis. XBOX is probably one of the only groups that is moving in a positive direction at Microsoft. Yes, they've lost billions, but Microsoft expected that going in. The billions they've spent over the last few years is a small price to pay for making Windows technology the center of the home entertainment experience as well as owning a significant content pipeline into the living room. However,…

Its a strange irony that Microsoft's best products (Xbox, Natural Keyboards) are hardware.

True to a certain extent, but I would say that the XBOX also features pretty nifty software. Its Dashboard and Blade-UI make for what is arguably the best entertainment computer experience. Oh, and don't forget XBOX Live.

Re: Microsoft is Dead

#210

Post by JMiao » Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 2:21 AM UTC

Elfan wrote: post #150

zach wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox is a red herring. Microsoft's "Home and Entertainment" division still loses millions a day, six years after the Xbox unveiling, and has very little to do with technology in the first place, much less software innovation.

It's not unusual for companies to sell game consoles at a large loss in hopes of increasing market share and making the money back on licensing. Pretty much everyone who isn't Nintnedo seems to do it that way.

I also think it helps to note that Microsoft is now breaking even on XBOX console hardware (this may have changed given the announcement of the new Elite model). Barely, but still a good sign that they knew what they were doing when they released before Sony without a proprietary video disc player.