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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

bbc.com

181–190 of 319 posts

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#181
post #135

My first job, when I finished college in 1992, was at HP. They hesitated to offer me a job, because they said that when HP offers someone a position, they're basically offering them a job for life. Sure, you can snicker at that comment, since almost no company would (or can, or should) make such a claim nowadays. But people told me that before I got there, in the mid-1980s, there were big problems at the company. Rat…

I just think it's the wrong way to look at things. It's better to cut 30,000 to save the company, than to keep everyone hired and wait for every employee to be out of work.

Maybe. And I fully admit that given those two choices, it's better to save the company and lay of 30k people.

But I do have to wonder how the company grew to be so bloated and large. Perhaps it was unfair for HP to hire them to begin with.

I fully recognize that at the end of a day, an unprofitable company doesn't do anyone any good. It's just sad for me to think that the only way to make the company profitable is to lay off such a huge number of employees.

I also know how big-company layoffs often work; they often don't take someone's quality of work into consideration, but rather the project or division in which they worked. Thus, I'm sure some great people will be looking for jobs, through no fault of their own.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#182
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry if this question comes of as naive. Is the medical cost so high that it can only be covered with an insurance? Would a small amount of savings set aside for this purpose be viable in case somebody loses their medical insurance? Also would you not be able to take your own medical insurance which is independent of the company you work for? I am just trying to understand how the medical system there works. I…

CA/usa, broken ankle, two surgeries: $110k in billings. All told, probably 10-12 doctor-hours. Insurance, beyond insuring you, does something perhaps more important: they negotiate massive discounts with all medical practices/hospitals/etc. My insurer negotiated that to something reasonable (approx $35k, though memory fails me); I could even afford that if I needed to. Crucially (and I understand this is fucking stup…

Anecdote/comparison: there is a guy on YT doing Taiwan motorcycle tours, one of the US guests broke an ankle falling off the scooter with no tourist insurance. They went to the hospital and asked to pay in cash. Xray, cast, emergency room, all in all few hours of work came down to below $1K no questions asked.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#183
post #4

HP's new business model for the last 2 years : * cut costs (mostly by disabling essential business functions) * buy back stock using proceeds The result: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&... The person in Charge : Meg Whitman. In 2008, she was cited by The New York Times as among the women most likely to become the first female President of the United States. Because what "worked" for HP, w…

>buy back stock using proceeds

it worked for radioshack!

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#184
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that really a legit solution? Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' and theres lots of people like his dad who really want work, and are loyal and hardworking. But there's not enough jobs to go around and the amount keeps decreasing d…

>Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job'

I think it was just built on the idea of selling stuff to people and making as many things as you can sellable commodities.

Whether those working are many or few doesn't matter, as long as you get to sell to enough people to make your profit.

In the days of advanced British etc capitalism, the homeless/jobless/disenfranchised living in London etc, were very many.

That you need to pay more people to be able to build a wide market is more of a 20th century addition (Ford and his workers, the New Deal, etc).

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#185
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry if this question comes of as naive. Is the medical cost so high that it can only be covered with an insurance? Would a small amount of savings set aside for this purpose be viable in case somebody loses their medical insurance? Also would you not be able to take your own medical insurance which is independent of the company you work for? I am just trying to understand how the medical system there works. I…

CA/usa, broken ankle, two surgeries: $110k in billings. All told, probably 10-12 doctor-hours. Insurance, beyond insuring you, does something perhaps more important: they negotiate massive discounts with all medical practices/hospitals/etc. My insurer negotiated that to something reasonable (approx $35k, though memory fails me); I could even afford that if I needed to. Crucially (and I understand this is fucking stup…

"uninsured people pay way more"

A minor but important correction is they are billed way more, not necessarily pay way more.

For example I dated a girl who just out of high school with no insurance had a really badly broken arm (car accident IIRC) and the hospital "charged" her, in total, $100K+ as an imaginary amount, complained at her for awhile, and then they wrote her off after some token payment (more than they would have gotten in bankruptcy, less than it would have cost her in legal fees to file bankruptcy, but a moderately huge amount of money at part time minimum wage income).

Now whats important is the difference between the imaginary retail price of $100K and what it actually cost to provide services is incredibly valuable from an accounting standpoint. Also from a marketing standpoint her "$100K" of services was donated by a gracious company to the poor, they sure as heck don't publicize the actual cost of providing that service was only $10K even including minor surgery and recuperation. They did a good job, by the time I met her, I had no idea her arm had been so ruined just a year or two ago until she told me and showed me her arm, by no means did they cheap out on her care or recovery just because she was uninsured.

Finally the hope is that if they charged that poor girl a fair $10K then it would be hanging over her head for years until she could pay it off or more likely bankruptcy filing fees costing less than $10K they'd get nothing at all, but if they "charge" $100K then they might jackpot and she could qualify for some govt grant or fundraiser or whatever. If they know she's going to declare bankruptcy no matter what they charge and they're going to get $0 revenue, then game theory shows they should ask for $100M on the off chance by a miracle she wins the lottery, or qualifies from some weird govt grant or school support fund or something.

I think something foreigners often don't understand is we charge poor people $100K for a broken arm but we only charge them like $2K to file bankruptcy, so there are no acute medical problems that cost more than $2K, and for chronic problems they make life hell until either the chronic problem goes away and so do the bankruptcy bills, or the victim dies, but its not really expensive. The business model ruins middle class aspirations (how will I have the vacation home and RV if I file bankruptcy?) but we solved that problem by shipping off all the middle clss jobs to China, not having a middle class means not having to worry about a middle class anymore, there's just really rich people and peasants who own nothing.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#186
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

When CFEngine got bust (well, the company was put on life-support) all the guys who know the technology (even if it was just a 1-2 years of experience) resigned and turned into contractors with a semi-permanent contracts and 2-3x income boost.

It's not hard.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#187
post #48
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amazing coverage they have is barely cutting it. He pays pennies on the dollar for the coverage they get. I can't imagine it would be like this at all on the exchange.

Years ago I did a website for a person who sold health insurance for businesses. It turns out that a business is defined as 2 people and can come in most any form. With business healthcare they accept anyone even if you have pre-existing conditions. It gets around trying to buy health insurance directly. Cost is pretty reasonable.

A two person business won't be able to negotiate a group rate or decent benefits package very well. At this point you're better off looking at these ACA exchanges. They've done the negotiation for you with these larger carriers.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM has a smaller turnover and employs even more....

IBM blacklists anyone who ever quits. Its emotional blackmail - "You'll never work in this industry again!" They're experts at giving the impression of career growth while underpaying.

[Citation Needed] - I've seen people who have worked at IBM multiple times, and certainly nobody has ever said that to me.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#189
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

>> I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers

You should do a few things.

1 - Contact an employment attorney and see if they can determine if he signed a non-compete. If it helps, I was involved in two scenarios (in Minnesota) where I signed a non-compete and went to work for a competitor. Both times, the judge threw out the case saying the company couldn't keep me from being gainfully employed if I wasn't going to disrupt their business. It was a hard sell since I was going to a startup and they were a fortune 1000 company.

2 - Tell your Dad to start planning as if he will get laid off. Start putting together a plan for his own business. Contacts, companies, phone numbers, information on their equipment - anything he can get his hands on. In short, start stockpiling information now. The more he has, the sooner he gets off the ground. Also, start talking to people to see how motivated they would be to start something on their own.

4 - Tell him to dust off his resume and start sending it out to recruiters. I know for a fact there's a ton of HP hardware vendors or re-sellers that could use his experience.

In short, start planning for the worst. Hopefully he gets through this, but he should assume the worst and hope for the best. If he does get laid off, he's already ready to hit the ground running instead of wallowing about being a company for so long. Trust me, companies would die to have a guy with his contacts and experience. This is by no means a dead end or career ending by any stretch.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#190
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LaserJets were always good, but their inkjets (DerpJets, all of them :-)) were always horrible in my experience. Then again, I've never worked with other printers for a long period of time (my employer used all HP), so I can't compare...

The original Deskjets were good. I had a 500 that lasted years - until I decided I wanted color. But the new generation of their inkjets are horrible. Bloated drivers, mountains of dried ink inside them from the constant cleaning cycles, ink that is overpriced, flaky electronics, cheap plastics. I gave up on them and bought a Brother laser printer, and it's just what I want in a printer - reliable and available.

I had had my 550c for five years. Based on that experience I recommended the purchase of 3 Deskjets for all of us in the office. They were 600 series. Noisy as hell, crappy paper feeds, and without any aesthetic redemption. Between 1992 and 1997, HP became a different company.

FWIW, I was using Brother products for years but they finally pissed me off enough that I'm on Epson.

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