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The CIA's most famous ship headed for the scrapyard

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Re: The CIA's most famous ship headed for the scrapyard

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exactly right. Otherwise, this logic would lend support to, for instance, the notion that the moon landings were faked, merely because other conspiracies have turned out to be true. And nobody that's sane really thinks the moon landings were faked, so we find that other conspiracies being true doesn't really help with evaluating any given conspiracy. Or maybe more succintly: we need more Edward Snowden and les…

What we need is more people capable of entertaining an idea without necessarily believing it. People who can acknowledge multiple possibilities and put reasonable plausibility ratings on them without getting too emotionally involved with any of them. People who can say "Yes, the widely accepted story is probably true, but here's five or six low-probability alternative possibilties."

What makes the widely accepted story probably true? In my mind, it has no truth weight greater than any other probability. The most accepted story has a very high chance of being gamed/controlled.

Re: The CIA's most famous ship headed for the scrapyard

#42
post #40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea, man, in any case it beats waiting for several days while your own sailors on Kursk were banging at the walls. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Kursk_%28K-1... ) It was just 100m depth - a normal dive for professional divers - and i just remember how it was surprising that nothing was done during the next couple days. I mean such paralysis is typical for Russian bureaucratic machine, be it civili…

While NATO offered to activate the submarine rescue system to assist. Most militaries respect their opponents, and all sailors respect the sea. It's when that is lacking that you start to see abuses more likely to occur - WW2 Japan in general, Germany against the Russians, the US against Iraqis since 2003.

You really need to read more military history.

Re: The CIA's most famous ship headed for the scrapyard

#43
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exactly right. Otherwise, this logic would lend support to, for instance, the notion that the moon landings were faked, merely because other conspiracies have turned out to be true. And nobody that's sane really thinks the moon landings were faked, so we find that other conspiracies being true doesn't really help with evaluating any given conspiracy. Or maybe more succintly: we need more Edward Snowden and les…

What we need is more people capable of entertaining an idea without necessarily believing it. People who can acknowledge multiple possibilities and put reasonable plausibility ratings on them without getting too emotionally involved with any of them. People who can say "Yes, the widely accepted story is probably true, but here's five or six low-probability alternative possibilties."

This!

This is one of the key skills that I got from my training in science. That and literature research. And designing experiments. Getting emotionally attached to some hypothesis is very dangerous. But on the other hand, sometimes the hypothesis is OK, and it's the experimental design and technique that are hosed.

Re: The CIA's most famous ship headed for the scrapyard

#44
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But on the other hand, maybe the category "conspiracy theory" isn't so useful? I'm reminded here of Kuhn. I do agree that untestable hypotheses are bullshit. But most "conspiracy theories" aren't untestable, as nontrivial as the requisite tests might be.

> maybe the category "conspiracy theory" isn't so useful? Maybe not. The defining aspect of silly theories isn't just that they involve conspiracies. However many silly theories do wind up involving conspiracies, because assuming the existence of a conspiracy is the easiest way to explain away any differences between your theory and observable reality. Think that President Obama comes from Mars? Well why is there a b…

Yes. Concepts of elegance and Occam's razor come to mind.
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