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Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

ipfs.io

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Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#51

Post by vancan1ty »

I have always wondered if there is some way to make a distributed network which provides content in such a way that users' freedoms are maximized. I don't particularly like handing over all control of my data and internet presence to cloud providers. IPFS looks really, really cool!

As ot asked, I am also curious about how this compares to other efforts to create decentralized networks, like Freenet and GNUnet. I definitely plan to pick one in the coming weeks and start using it, hope this catches on.

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#52

Post by Rhapso »

espes wrote: post #4

Is there any incentive to host nodes?

While running an IPFS node does supply some utility to the DHT, the primary utility you can provide to the network is providing files.

You only provide files that you have previously accessed via IPFS or added yourself. So even without any external motivations to sponsor other people's content (which are in the works), you have the motivation of sponsorship of content that you wish to increase the robustness and accessibility of. Increasing access to public utility can be itself an incentive.

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#53

Post by hardwaresofton »

titfn wrote: post #33
hardwaresofton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the (relatively rare) case of a SHA hash collision, couldn't you try and resolve a collision by using (the results) of other hashing functions? While two things may produce the same SHA hash, they may differ with other hashing functions.

instead of calculating multiple hashes every time, might as well use a better hash?

We're way past my personal knowledge, but what I was thinking was that the probablistic combinations of two algorithms outweigh (in terms of probability of a collision) the likely hood of a single algo.

IE if you have some hashing function with a 1/2^5 chance of a collisions, using that in conjuntion with another hashing function with say 1/2^3 requires that both unlikely probabilities occur, resulting in 1/2^8, where a "stronger" hashing function might only have 1/2^6 (technically stronger than either one of them, but still not as strong as both)

I'd really love some correction on the logic above though, I am by no means well studied in probability or hashing functions, despite some effort, and would really appreciate any corrections.

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#54

Post by Rhapso »

radlad wrote: post #14

I'm very excited to see what happens with IPFS. The article talks about replacing HTTP however, and this is definitely a tricky task. Someone in this thread already asked one of my questions (So is this primarily for static websites?) but my second question is: So is this primarily for personal websites? I'm having a hard time finding a good way for Facebook, for example, to monetize their website. Targeting ads go o…

You can free space, but how that happens is not explicit.

The more people a file is requested by, the more places it is stored. If the file ceases to be requested, and all the participants decide to remove it from their caches, the file is gone.

DHT records are slightly more persistent, but without a sponsor they fade as the network's churn removes the nodes that once hosted them.

It is very hard to delete things, and the most likely things to be deleted are things people are not providing effort to preserve (even one person providing such effort is sufficient to maintain the DHT records.)

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#56

Post by sroerick »

jeswin wrote: post #13
giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

So is this primarily for static websites? I don't see dynamic websites going too well with this system. Edit: If someone like GitHub supported this for GitHub pages it would be a great step forward for this as well.

> So is this primarily for static websites? More work would be needed here perhaps. But decentralized apps should happen one day. As someone without real technical knowledge in security and decentralized platforms, I'd love to hear from some on HN where we really stand on decentralized apps and security. - Public data. Distributing, searching and querying is not a problem. - Restricted data. You'd be distributing enc…

I don't really know about restricted data, but AlexandriaP2P is doing pretty interesting work with storing IPFS magnet links in a blockchain.

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#58

Post by dchest »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #32
hardwaresofton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the (relatively rare) case of a SHA hash collision, couldn't you try and resolve a collision by using (the results) of other hashing functions? While two things may produce the same SHA hash, they may differ with other hashing functions.

It will reduce the probability of a collision at the expense of the address being longer - because now you need to carry around hash1 + hash2. But still it doesn't eliminate the possibility, only makes it less likely.

There's no hashing construction that will "completely eliminate the possibility" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle), so I'm not sure what answer you're looking for. It's computationally infeasible to generate collisions (accidental or malicious) if SHA-2 is not broken. If you're interested in reading about how combining multiple hashes affects security, see this paper: https://www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2004/CRYPTO/1472/1472....

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#59

Post by dperfect »

I wish this article mentioned something about BitSwap; before reading the IPFS paper, I was doubtful about anyone wanting to participate without incentives.

Still, even after skimming the paper, it sounds like a lot really depends on how well BitSwap is implemented. At one point, the paper says this:

> While the notion of a barter system implies a virtual currency could be created, this would require a global ledger to track ownership and transfer of the currency. This can be implemented as a BitSwap Strategy, and will be explored in a future paper.

So it kind of sounds like they need something like bitcoin, but don't want it to be tightly coupled to bitcoin - which is probably smart. But without a single clear solution for a reliable BitSwap strategy (and I'm not sure how it could be reliable without a distributed global ledger of some kind), it's hard to see how/why the necessary resources will be contributed to the IPFS network.

Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web

#60

Post by _prometheus »

dperfect wrote: post #59

I wish this article mentioned something about BitSwap; before reading the IPFS paper, I was doubtful about anyone wanting to participate without incentives. Still, even after skimming the paper, it sounds like a lot really depends on how well BitSwap is implemented. At one point, the paper says this: > While the notion of a barter system implies a virtual currency could be created, this would require a global ledger…

Check out another protocol we (the IPFS creators) are working on: http://filecoin.io
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