Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#151

Post by nickpsecurity » Tue, Sep 08, 2015, 10:49 PM UTC

toothbrush wrote: post #149

nickpsecurity wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tried a search in Gmail. Took a fraction of a second. I tried one in Claws email client which pulls local copies of the emails. Happened instantly as you predicted. Caching speeds up search indeed. Now, what does a fraction of a second improvement on search have to do with security and usability of email? That would have very little impact on my choice of email client.

You're right about it being irrelevant to security. Somewhere else in this thread i pointed out that this isn't a motivation for me, so i agree with you there. The only reason i bring up search speed is to rebut the assertion elsewhere in the thread that my email client is a step backwards in usability/features. For me, the advantages are: works all over ( e.g. , i can find out my buddy's apartment address from an em…

Oh, it's OK: it was an interesting comment and relevant to why people still use things like this. Keyboard-driven, works in low bandwidth, and hackable are definite advantages. I could see geeks (even me) enjoying something like that. I also agree that the "best" client is relative to the needs of the user.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#152

Post by monochromatic » Tue, Sep 08, 2015, 11:43 PM UTC

insertnickname wrote: post #142

monochromatic wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, sometimes in the real world we don't all get to always choose our own tools.

Sure, but you still shouldn't blame plain text for Outlook's failures.

I didn't lay blame at all. I just asked: "Do you wind up with plaintext emails that look gross when opened in Outlook?"

My presumption, based on your defensiveness/evasiveness, is that the answer is "yes."

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#153

Post by kragen » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 2:13 AM UTC

schoen wrote: post #43

massysett wrote: post #39

I used to use Mutt, but these days I do over 75% of my mail reading on a phone, and on a phone Mutt is a non-starter.

I have used it from a phone with a terminal emulator over ssh (all of my phones have had keyboards). It was impressive to see how the keyboard supported mapping swipe gestures to cursor movement keys so that I could swipe up and down in my mutt message listings.

What's the best QWERTY-keyboard phone now?

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#154

Post by yeukhon » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 2:56 AM UTC

thanksgiving wrote: post #135

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you apply an extreme minimalist styling to other areas of your daily life - like "there's no need to clothes to be any other colour than gray"? or "there's no need for food to have a flavour as long as it's nutritious". Genuine question. Most people use some form of flourish even in handwriting - an underline, all-caps, increased letter size or spacing, a personally preferred colour; isn't it weird to not have the…

I looked down and I am indeed wearing a plain grey t-shirt. I wouldn't tell people to not wear anything other than gray though. I wouldn't tell people to not eat food and switch to soylent completely. I'm sorry if I appeared to push my viewpoint. That was not my intention. I apologize for my lack of communication skills. I was merely expressing a personal preference. I just wonder why documents that need rich text fo…

I don't know about you, but I write a lot of emails, and I write very long emails, usually to technical people, and believe or not, they don't read everything and they have TL;DR mentality (I don't, I read every word). I also deal with business users in my role, and rich text formatting improves reading when rich text is used appropriately. Compile PDF and upload is just another burden, and sometimes I forget to forward / reply with the attachment there. Wait I want to show table directly on my email (not ascii kind).. that can't be done if you are plaintext.

I don't remember if Gmail's integration with Google Docs actually suppose to make links available during reply/forward...

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#155

Post by eru » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 3:13 AM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #137

eru wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do the same two things with gmail. (There are lots of things mutt does that gmail doesn't, of course.)

What two things? I'm not an expert on Gmail's keyboard interface. How, for example, can I see all the messages from Joe Zwanizol that are more than 15 days but less than 60 days old, using only the keyboard, in five seconds?

> What two things?

The two things mentioned: quickly-customized inboxes (via search) and handling lots of emails.

> How, for example, can I see all the messages from Joe Zwanizol that are more than 15 days but less than 60 days old, using only the keyboard, in five seconds?

There's a search syntax for that. Not sure whether you'll type it out in five seconds.

A browser extension to bring mutt keyboard interface to gmail might be useful for some folk.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#156

Post by eru » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 3:15 AM UTC

twic wrote: post #122

eru wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with Pine, and used mutt for a bit later. Mutt is ok, if you invest the time in learning it. (If you can handle vim, you can cope with mutt.)

Interesting. I've been using (al)pine for years, and there are bits of it which really frustrate me - mostly how slow it is when dealing with large mailboxes - so i have been considering a move to mutt for a while. I'm not a vim fan, so i might have to reconsider!

Oh, the specific keystrokes etc are not the same. (I don't think they even have the concept of modes in mutt.)

It's more of a spiritual similarity. About as faint as vim / nethack.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#157

Post by luxpir » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 8:36 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #153

schoen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used it from a phone with a terminal emulator over ssh (all of my phones have had keyboards). It was impressive to see how the keyboard supported mapping swipe gestures to cursor movement keys so that I could swipe up and down in my mutt message listings.

What's the best QWERTY-keyboard phone now?

You would have to use an ancient modem or just sync emails by serial cable/irda, but the Psion 5MX was about the pinnacle of portable content creation hardware, IMO. With it you can write emails or whole books if you wish. Some prefer the 3 series, but not necessarily for the keyboard. 25-40hr battery life on 2 AAs, insta-on operation, CF card transfer of files - no wonder people are still using them.

Now that people are not as fixated on having colour screens, being primed to now accept e-ink style displays, is there a chance we could get a similar device with more modern specs? I think I'd still rather work from a palmtop than a laptop or phone when not at a 'workstation'.

I used an N900 for a long time (relatively speaking) and found its keyboard to be solid, but not in a way that could make writing or emailing tasks more productive.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#158

Post by leephillips » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #155

leephillips wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What two things? I'm not an expert on Gmail's keyboard interface. How, for example, can I see all the messages from Joe Zwanizol that are more than 15 days but less than 60 days old, using only the keyboard, in five seconds?

> What two things? The two things mentioned: quickly-customized inboxes (via search) and handling lots of emails. > How, for example, can I see all the messages from Joe Zwanizol that are more than 15 days but less than 60 days old, using only the keyboard, in five seconds? There's a search syntax for that. Not sure whether you'll type it out in five seconds. A browser extension to bring mutt keyboard interface to gm…

After looking for it I found the search syntax, so it would seem that something like this is possible, as you say. But it's not as expressive as mutt's pattern language, so would be clunkier to use. But it is there.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#159

Post by kragen » Wed, Sep 09, 2015, 10:41 PM UTC

luxpir wrote: post #157

kragen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the best QWERTY-keyboard phone now?

You would have to use an ancient modem or just sync emails by serial cable/irda, but the Psion 5MX was about the pinnacle of portable content creation hardware, IMO. With it you can write emails or whole books if you wish. Some prefer the 3 series, but not necessarily for the keyboard. 25-40hr battery life on 2 AAs, insta-on operation, CF card transfer of files - no wonder people are still using them. Now that people…

It does look pretty awesome, but I can't find anybody selling Psions here in Buenos Aires, and it seems like they might lack something in the camera, GPS, 3-D modeling, and audio department. Like, I recorded a beatboxer at a public gathering today on my Android phone, and more than once I've sketched things on paper and photographed them with it, quite aside from other creative uses for photography.

Re: Why Some Security Experts Use Mutt

#160

Post by lloydde » Fri, Sep 11, 2015, 10:11 PM UTC

> A quarter of a century ago, checking your email meant logging onto a mainframe

The lead in seems incorrect. Pine wasn't publicly released until 1992. By the early 90s many college and university environments were thin clients or unix workstations connecting to unix servers.