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Better and worse ways to spot a liar

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Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#141

Post by slirpee »

wpietri wrote: post #100
casion wrote: post #94

These sort of things really bother me, because they cause me a lot of trouble. I am really uncomfortable in front of people, and no matter how honest I am, I am show my discomfort in interacting with people quite a lot. I look around the room while talking to people, I shuffle around, sometimes I sweat just talking about the weather... I have social anxiety obviously, but it's awkward to start a conversation with any…

Yeah, I used to struggle with social anxiety a fair bit, so this is familiar to me. It's true that many liars are anxious, because they're afraid of getting caught. But I became afraid of getting falsely accused, which tended to make me anxious at exactly the same times liars would be. Which in turn would trigger a wave of anxiety about the pattern, making me excruciatingly aware of the whole mess, making me yet more…

I have similar issues and had that anxiety feedback loop once when questioned by an airline security officer, "How long have you been in Europe?" on a backpacking trip. I was wondering if they meant EU or the continent and whether only since last exit or since I left home (since they were holding my non-European passport), and no exact correct answers were coming to mind for any of the possibilities, I was tired, wondering why didn't they just read the stamps in the passport if they cared so much, I wasn't prepared to get a grilling just to check in for my flight, and OH NO I'M HESITATING I LOOK LIKE SUSPICIOUS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?!? Well, I muddled through with vague hesitant answers that may have even been contradictory because of my uncertainty. Anyway, despite a really cringey performance from me, I guess they were satisfied that I wasn't knowingly or unknowingly carrying drugs/bombs (seemed to be the main concerns), because they gave me my ticket and I went through the real security and passport control which IIRC was nowhere near as invasive.

I guess they can tell the difference between a socially-anxious perfectionist stressing about giving correct answers and a liar stressing about giving false answers... or the airline is wasting their money by giving this "interview" but ignoring really sketchy answers. Or maybe I did not appear as suspicious as I thought.

Another time I casually broke eye contact with a bus security officer while he was rattling off prohibited items and searching my bag. I've noticed sometimes I subconsciously prefer to focus by looking down and maybe turning an ear toward someone talking about something detailed like this, but this guy seemed to interpret it as a sign that he'd just said something that was in my bag and shouldn't be. He repeated the question once and maybe twice, so this time I stared straight into his eyes as I answered. Maybe it looked like a liar over-compensating, but whatever, he was tossing my bag anyway.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#142

Post by molmalo »

School-Cotton wrote: post #115
haberman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I've flown to the UK from the USA, the entry card has asked for an address in England. The first time (in 2005) I left it blank and they wouldn't let me pass immigration until I filled it out.

I got in to England without listing my friend's address, but the border guard seemed extremely suspicious and really grilled me about my travel plans, etc.

Something similar happened to me when I was about to take the train from Paris to London. I didn't have a reservation because I was planning my trip on the go. The agent was not pleased at all with that, but as the train made the last call to board, he just scolded me, told me that next time I really should make a reservation before visiting England... and then let me pass.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#143

Post by rorykoehler »

scintill76 wrote: post #140
rorykoehler wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to take things as I go (at least when planning seems like overkill, e.g. for non-critical things). This caught me by surprise the last time I flew into NYC from Europe. I had intended to get into the city and then call a friend I was staying with to meet up and go to their place from there. Naturally I didn't get the address before hand. They wouldn't let me into the country without an address on my dis-embark…

You're a US citizen? Just asking because the parent comment talked about hassles entering US as a citizen, so I am wondering if they really make it that stringent yet simultaneously pointless, even for citizens.

Yes

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#144

Post by watsonc73 »

mratzloff wrote: post #80
watsonc73 wrote: post #58

From what I understand you typically need a 'base-line' of normality to know when someone has deviated from that. People can get nervous or make mistakes at any point. The best way to set the base-line is to have a general conversation to put them at ease and then ask the more consequential questions. This could lead to longer queues though which would be an unfortunate side effect. TL;DR Use the deviation from the b…

Incidentally, this is how I interview people. Random BS for 5-10 minutes followed by interview questions. It also works for one on ones with staff to tell a recent funny anecdote about some subject they're interested in to get them to breathe and open up a little.

I do the same when interviewing. I came across this technique when looking at a Body Language course hosted by Vanessa Van Edwards. Most of it was superfluous but I thought the parts around 'reading' the truth from non verbal clues was very interesting.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#145

Post by watsonc73 »

veb wrote: post #76
watsonc73 wrote: post #58

From what I understand you typically need a 'base-line' of normality to know when someone has deviated from that. People can get nervous or make mistakes at any point. The best way to set the base-line is to have a general conversation to put them at ease and then ask the more consequential questions. This could lead to longer queues though which would be an unfortunate side effect. TL;DR Use the deviation from the b…

That's how the polygraphing process works, right? Isn't that generally regarded as useless?

In short yes but the approach I've seen work is less 'science' and more about judgement calls when analysing micro expressions. Without the base-line, it's hard to work out what a normal reaction is and what could potentially be a tell.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#146

Post by dredmorbius »

samuellb wrote: post #19

Not sure if trying to "trap" the liar is always the right way to go. Once I had to work with a freelance web master and we were trying to cancel his contract and make him transfer the domain name to us (an association I was working for). I confronted him by asking politely for a written copy of his contract because I thought he was lying about the length of the contract. He was insulted and claimed there was a verbal…

As others have noted: this isn't a truth-telling exercise, it's negotiation / achieving desired result.

Big difference.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#147

Post by samuellb »

dredmorbius wrote: post #146
samuellb wrote: post #19

Not sure if trying to "trap" the liar is always the right way to go. Once I had to work with a freelance web master and we were trying to cancel his contract and make him transfer the domain name to us (an association I was working for). I confronted him by asking politely for a written copy of his contract because I thought he was lying about the length of the contract. He was insulted and claimed there was a verbal…

As others have noted: this isn't a truth-telling exercise, it's negotiation / achieving desired result. Big difference.

Most people except for me and a colleague seemed to think he was honest, though.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#148

Post by veb »

schoen wrote: post #124
veb wrote: post #70

I grew up very deaf. I went to mainstream schools, I did everything everyone else would do... except hear much at all. I wore hearing aids which helped somewhat, but that just makes all that jumbled noise louder, which isn't that helpful. I was deaf since birth. So at a very early age I picked up body-language, micro-expressions and of course lip-reading which were rather an integral way for me to communicate! > "The…

> Because sign language is the most literal thing you can think of. If I look at someone and point to them, then point to someone else, what do you suppose that means? The only issue is local dialect/slang which is easy enough to figure out. I asked someone who was studying ASL about the differences between sign languages. She pointed out that they do commonly have different signs which might be very abstract and non…

Join a Facebook group called "Deaf World Love Sign Language V.I.P" (signers from all over the world. can't even comment in the same language)

If you know sign language, you can pretty much understand what they're saying. The first time I noticed I understood someone in Brazil, talking about work, I didn't notice that... I was understanding them. I didn't understand certain stuff -- slang --.

Yes, abstract and non-literal. It's because of the PC brigade. Growing up... things were a whole lot different. It's still pretty much literal.

Re: Better and worse ways to spot a liar

#150

Post by schoen »

veb wrote: post #148
schoen wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because sign language is the most literal thing you can think of. If I look at someone and point to them, then point to someone else, what do you suppose that means? The only issue is local dialect/slang which is easy enough to figure out. I asked someone who was studying ASL about the differences between sign languages. She pointed out that they do commonly have different signs which might be very abstract and non…

Join a Facebook group called "Deaf World Love Sign Language V.I.P" (signers from all over the world. can't even comment in the same language) If you know sign language, you can pretty much understand what they're saying. The first time I noticed I understood someone in Brazil, talking about work, I didn't notice that... I was understanding them. I didn't understand certain stuff -- slang --. Yes, abstract and non-lit…

It would be really interesting to see someone sign the whole Swadesh list in different sign languages and try to see the level of similarity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list

Edit: oh, there's already a special Swadesh list for comparing sign languages because of "overestimation of the relationships between sign languages, due to indexical signs such as pronouns and parts of the body". (Those signs are the ones that are most likely to be shared because they're likely to arise independently or have an inherently obvious meaning.)

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