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The Internet of Way Too Many Things

nytimes.com

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Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#211

Post by wpietri »

bitdivision wrote: post #177
wpietri wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always concerns me when a programmer reads a customer problem and offers a technical solution. It could be that an open-source API really will solve the problems he mentioned, but if you want adoption, you'll need to get better at explaining how they customer's life is going to get better. If I say, "X is too much hassle" and someone replies with "Good news, I put a bunch of PHP up on Github", I'm not seeing less…

Well I don't think OP was trying to help everyone immediately, but he is at least making a start. The beta API someone threw up on github obviously isn't going to help the average consumer, but it might be the start of a community of enthusiasts. Maybe one day those enthusiasts build a robust system with wider adoption and a company behind it. If you want something that 'just works', then github is probably not the f…

> If you want something that 'just works', then github is probably not the first place you should look.

Yes, and that's my point. The expressed problem was that somebody renovating a home looked at a bunch of the options and said that they were too much hassle, too much risk. When somebody says, "This technology doesn't look like something I want to deal with for 20 years," it seems to miss the point to add, "Hey, here's some source code to something even less likely to last 20 years."

I'm not saying it's bad to try write code for fun. I too have a GitHub repository with some dubious home automation code. [1] But as a developer, when a user talks about a problem, I think it's vital to truly listen to the problem and then only talk about a solution if it actually solves something for them.

[1] Basically, redshift for my house: https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#212

Post by mturmon »

jodoherty wrote: post #178
Animats wrote: post #75

I went to an Internet of Things meeting in SF about two years ago, and it was about like this. A Samsung executive was touting an Internet-enabled refrigerator, which was basically just a refrigerator with a tablet built into the door, with no special sensors, costing more than a refrigerator plus a tablet. I asked him why they'd built the product, and got an honest answer. He said the market was three types of peopl…

It'd be great if the refrigerator could track the expiration dates of the items inside using RFID, then notify you if anything was getting old. For made at home items and non-tagged items, they could also make RFID stickies, where you scan them when you put the item in the fridge, give it a name or take a snapshot with the built-in camera, set your own expiration date, and it tracks how long it's been in there. If yo…

My printer does this with printer cartridges, and I wish I could make it stop. Can I just print until it looks funny and replace it then?

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#213

Post by fr0styMatt2 »

fabiandesimone wrote: post #174
antr wrote: post #2

I just bought a home, and just started a considerable renovation. I'm putting in new water pipes, new electrical wiring, etc. I thought of putting "smart" devices (i.e. switches, alarms, thermostats, etc.) given the "advantages" these promise. After considerable research, it's not worth the hussle or money. Let's put aside the fact that these are considerable more expensive, and won't breakeven in years (some devices…

What about doing it with Z Wave enabled devices. I'm thinking of starting 'automating' my home and everything points to having a Vera Light and Z Wave stuff.

I've started down that road with Philips Hue lights. Admittedly expensive, but nice and I can build up the system over time. They're Zigbee and Philips are very very open with them. Incidentally they do the best warm-white I've ever seen in an LED bulb, which is nice.

I'm actually looking at one of the Hue Tap switches now; they're a battery-less switch (kinetic power) with three buttons (I think) that you can customize. So I can, for example, put one in my bedroom and have a button on it that turns all the lights off in the house for when I'm about to go to sleep, etc. No need to run cables through walls and have switches where you want.

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#214

Post by tw04 »

BurritoAlPastor wrote: post #114
tw04 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you make sure they use one of the standards based protocols, then buy something like a smartthings hub which is open enough that you can write your own apps if the vendor decides to abandon theirs. You don't need the vendor to update their app, you just need them to operate with the hub, and then talk to the hub directly to control the device.

Ah, yes. Not only do I pay $50 for my light switches, I also have to write my own interface before they behave differently from $10 light switches. What an incredible value proposition.

That would be the case in the most extreme circumstances. And likely in those circumstances, you'll make money. Much like the general Linux ecosystem, someone else has the same problem, is in college/has no kids/has a ton of spare time, and has already written the program for you.

Out of my entire household, I've written one app ever, and it was because I wanted an alert on my sump pump based on an amperage draw on an outlet... and even that was based on someone else's code. I just changed the amp draw variable.

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#216

Post by thetruthseeker1 »

I want to bring an alternate viewpoint into the discussion. For some a product like Leeo may sound superfluous and may not seem to justify the added value it provides for the rise in cost(99$+). (Note there is some added value however trivial it may be). For others they may say no to a product like https://nest.com/ or this https://on.google.com/hub/ based on their financial flexibility and their lifestyle (which you may see as 'obviously' needed).

I do think in this case, the best judge is the free market. If any product maker provides added value at a price point where there will be enough buyers and they see profit, their business will run successfully, else it will fail like any other business. How can my opinion decide what is a good product, it is the market that should decide it!

There are lot of independent products that solve mostly one problem - cars for eg:

Every product design does not have to solve multiple problems, it is just that the users need to feel that it justifies its cost based on the value it provides.

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#217

Post by webXL »

dmritard96 wrote: post #91

As someone who is building IoT devices (www.flair.zone), I would say that many of these complaints resonate with me. There have been two motivating factors behind what we are doing: Building the Internet of Useful Things and not building the Internet of Expensive Things. So far that has worked well for us and we haven't even launched officially. Nest (as a company) is an interesting case to examine with respect to th…

Leeo is for people who don't see a need to replace their existing smoke/CO detectors and just want some peace of mind when they're away, but the pets aren't. I bought one used for $70 because I think it definitely has a place in a "smart"/monitored home. Just like dropcam. Heck, dropcam should be able to listen for your smoke detector. Might justify some of its cost.

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#218

Post by acdha »

freehunter wrote: post #37
hessenwolf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=infant-child-and-teen... Looks to me like infant mortality (under age one) has halved between 1977 and 2013. I understand the argument of "it worked fine for me", but, well, on a portfolio basis, you and I were dying a bit faster back then. Outpatient care is a big field these days. Something that, with extremely little effort, can reduce the odds of death or disability, is quit…

Same argument as "we rode on the back dashboard with no seat belts as a kid and we survived". Completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of kids who didn't survive. Because the ones who were killed doing something dangerous aren't around anymore to tell you not to do it. Doesn't mean we should roll back the clock on car safety.

That's different because there's a clear mechanism and the data supports it. Is there a real study with a large enough sample size showing anything similar or is it just the usual convenience and artfully vague claims?

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#219

Post by rmxt »

briandear wrote: post #199
shostack wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been longing for a nice looking wifi-enabled flow meter I can attach to all my faucets that have a readout of how much water I'm using and tie that data to current water rates to show me the cost in cents/second or something. And the obligatory display of a dashboard via website or app. Great way to help people in a home, especially little ones become water conscious.

Is water really that expensive? has anyone in a developed area ever actually run out of water? Even in California, people are still flushing toilets every day. The obsession with water conservation doesn't seem like it's based on anyone actually ever having run out of water. For example, where does water actually go when it's "wasted?" Does it disappear?

Surely an area does not need to completely "run out of water" for consequences to occur. Wikipedia has lots of examples of developed areas having less than typical rainfall and encountering problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_droughts

Re: The Internet of Way Too Many Things

#220

Post by georgemcbay »

thetruthseeker1 wrote: post #216

I want to bring an alternate viewpoint into the discussion. For some a product like Leeo may sound superfluous and may not seem to justify the added value it provides for the rise in cost(99$+). (Note there is some added value however trivial it may be). For others they may say no to a product like https://nest.com/ or this https://on.google.com/hub/ based on their financial flexibility and their lifestyle (which you…

While I kind of agree with the author's position in general, I found the singling-out of the Leeo (which I had previously never heard of and thus have no horse in the race of its success) a bad example.

The way it is described in the article actually sounds pretty ideal to me in that it is not trying to insert all sorts of "intelligence" into the simple, well-understood solution that already exists in the form of a simple smoke alarm. Rather, it is merely augmenting that solution in a way that is helpful but less mission critical, without integrating extra "intelligence" in a way that is likely to cause software-related problems.

See bradfitz's video for an example of how "intelligence" can hamper something like smoke alarms if the entire system is integrated and "smart".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY

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