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Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

miamiherald.com

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Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#51

Post by CmonDev »

brc wrote: post #20
ghshephard wrote: post #13

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

My local McDonalds is experimenting with touch screen menus. I guess automated kitchens won't be far behind. It will be a shame when such an entry level job is no longer available to teenagers to learn about doing a job and working in a team.

No messed up orders, no attitude. I'd rather have teenagers learn something else somewhere else.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#52

Post by [deleted] »

venomsnake wrote: post #15
ghshephard wrote: post #13

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

Basic income is coming. Like it or not. Better if created with debt free fiat money. This way we can have nice inflation - 2-4% yearly.

[deleted]

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#53

Post by [deleted] »

ghshephard wrote: post #13

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

[deleted]

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#54

Post by eru »

xraystyle wrote: post #50
eru wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The minuet you think Central planning can override natural market forces you run into much bigger problems that usually end in catastrophe for the people you were trying to 'help'. Corporations are central planning. Just on a smaller scale. (Though, companies like the old IBM were bigger then some small countries.)

> Corporations are central planning. Just on a smaller scale. No, they're not. Corporations plan their production and allocate their resources based on market information within their industry in an attempt to capitalize on the market signals they observe. Central planning is a process by which a central government attempts to control and direct the output of a nation's economy by deciding what to produce and when, i…

Not so different, see eg http://www.economist.com/node/17730360 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm in general.

eli_gottlieb sibling-comment is spot on.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#55

Post by A_COMPUTER »

brudgers wrote: post #35
3Pi wrote: post #12

Despite the impact it has on the availability of unskilled manual labour jobs, I think it's great that machines are finally turning to harvesting - having worked on a similar project to do with grapes (specifically, pruning), it's not always the easiest of things. It does highlight to me that we are getting closer to the point of needing to rethink labour distribution, because the non-technical jobs are the easiest t…

The article describes [anecdotally] that mechanization makes the remaining labourers' work assignments more physically demanding. All the easy pickings go to machines, not humans and people with an already hard workday for low pay has gotten harder as a result of mechanization. The give in the system for low wage workers is systematically being removed in the age of the unlimited time off meme.

Before the machines, just as many humans still had to do that crappy work, they were just a smaller percentage of all the workers. That part didn't make any sense to me. I know this is naive, but maybe with the net cost savings of using machines, the farmers could avoid planting the places that machines can't reach easily.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#56

Post by toomuchtodo »

brc wrote: post #22
3Pi wrote: post #12

Despite the impact it has on the availability of unskilled manual labour jobs, I think it's great that machines are finally turning to harvesting - having worked on a similar project to do with grapes (specifically, pruning), it's not always the easiest of things. It does highlight to me that we are getting closer to the point of needing to rethink labour distribution, because the non-technical jobs are the easiest t…

Even the people who get replaced get some benefit in that they get access to cheaper food. Not enough to replace their income, but the point is that automation is good for humanity. Only the Luddites want to smash machines and keep a shirt costing a days wages.

> Even the people who get replaced get some benefit in that they get access to cheaper food.

As long as that food is not then exported to consumers who are willing to pay more for it than the poor are able.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#57

Post by ghshephard »

brc wrote: post #46
ecoponderosa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An exception is small scale local artisanal natural/organic market gardens and family farms that rely on skilled hand labor almost exclusively. You will never and should never consider replacing that with automation and machines. The quality products made available to the public from these operations benefit from the extra attention to detail and experience gained from a lifetime spent in this type of agriculture, so…

Skilled artisanal work is by definition not low paid menial work. There's nothing wrong with people doing low paid work. Those of us who can't stand it impose our values on others. I worked a lot of manual labor while studying. I worked on mowing crews who spend their lives mowing the same pieces of grass over and over. You'd think they hate it but they were happy to work a low stress, secure job and just do their ho…

Low paid work in some countries may be fine - but in the United States it means that you won't have access to a high quality of health care and will not have quality legal representation (which is important, because if you are impoverished, you are more likely to be imprisoned); hell - you might even have trouble posting bail.

You will have difficultly securing quality education for your children, either because you can't afford private schools, or because you can't afford to live in a location where the public schools are of high quality.

You also are likely to be living pay-check to pay-check (sometimes even less, with pay-check lenders taking their vig), and only a small health-emergency away from becoming bankrupt, and quite possibly homeless.

So, no - I think there's a lot wrong with people doing low paid work. It might be okay for the young, or students, or the retired, but for most adults, low-paid menial work on a prolonged basis in the United States is a financial and personal disaster.

As long as that US system of inequality exists, I suggest we work hard to automate, eliminate, and as quickly as possible banish labor for adults that won't secure them a reasonable living for them and their household. Educate, Train, and move them up the feeding chain to something more sustainable.

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