Death to Bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Death to Bullshit

#191

Post by icebraining » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 12:47 PM UTC

rjblackman wrote: post #171

noarchy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also not socialist, in the sense that the parent comment was (I think) hinting at. There's plenty of capitalism at work in both Sweden and Norway.

you are mixing up communism and socialism. socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. the scandinavian systems are called "nordic socialism" for a reason.

Socialism doesn't have an agreed-upon definition. For example, the World Socialist Movement will tell you that it entails an end to private property and to trades using money[1].

Whether the Nordic model is really socialist is a subject of intense debate among the Left (as usual).

[1] http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-socialism

Re: Death to Bullshit

#192

Post by brc » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

ddingus wrote: post #176

brc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By growing the income, you mean growing their productivity so they make more money. Rising minimum wage and reducing hours does the exact opposite. Decreasing a tax burden is a good idea - but decreasing the tax burden on everyone. 'Tax the rich' while a popular strategy to single out a minority group, is ultimately a useless strategy as there aren't enough rich people to tax, and they already disproportionally pay m…

It's not all about productivity. People are already quite productive. Technology can continue to improve on this too. It's all about how we value people. Labor is the source of new wealth creation. Capital can augment this by sourcing technology, automation, etc... There is also infinite demand. That's good news. However, this demand breaks down into two coarse buckets: 1. Demand backed by liquid dollars and or acces…

The real question here is why are low paid people unable to keep up with the cost of living. What is pushing the cost of living higher than a minimum wage earner can be productive for?

The answer is taxes and regulations. Taxes make everything more expensive. Regulations choke supply of everything from energy to land. Of course, some taxes and some regulation is necessary. But the first thing to do is to stop adding more taxes and regulations. Nobody can seriously believe that adding more taxes and regulations are going to make things better, so the first thing to do is halt and reverse direction.

Re: Death to Bullshit

#193

Post by eli_gottlieb » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #156

The vast majority of working adults in the US are employed in the making and selling of things people don't need. A world without bullshit is total, utter economic collapse. It's the end of capitalism. It's hundreds of millions of people with nothing to do all day and no way to sustain themselves, an inevitable civil war with the landlord class, and a revolution that manages to install a government's that quite possi…

>A world without bullshit is ... the end of capitalism.

Finally! I get rid of two things I hate in one go!

>It's hundreds of millions of people with nothing to do all day and no way to sustain themselves, an inevitable civil war with the landlord class, and a revolution that manages to install a government's that quite possibly worse.

Why do you find it easier to imagine the end of civilization than the end of capitalism?

http://strikemag.org/capitalist-realism-by-mark-fisher/

Re: Death to Bullshit

#194

Post by Killswitch » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 7:35 PM UTC

ionised wrote: post #187

Killswitch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one is illegal and one isn't. I'll let you figure out what's wrong with your argument.

Legality is unfortunately not an indication of something being right or desirable.

No, but comparing apples and oranges.

Re: Death to Bullshit

#195

Post by Terr_ » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:00 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #119

a3n wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the call to arms is two pronged: call out bullshit, but also don't create bullshit. Don't do it is always achievable, even if it might take some time to extricate yourself from a situation that demands it, and still take care of your family.

Except the call to arms is two pronged: call out bullshit, but also don't create bullshit. Never gonna happen. Human beings are born to bullshit. The fact that we compete for mates and the way the different genders have differing optimal mating strategies pretty much ensures that. We are always going to bullshit each other to a certain degree, as we try to achieve the ends we are innately wired to pursue. That doesn'…

Naturalistic fallacy. Humans are also "born to lie" and "born to kill", but societies create structure and limits.

So too should we strive limit bullshit.

Re: Death to Bullshit

#196

Post by beagle3 » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:01 PM UTC

qwtel wrote: post #87

mojuba wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain types of bullshit (if not all) are built on the phenomenon of Eternal September[1]. There are always those who are clueless enough to trust a spam/scam email or who'd believe that the hamburger on the billboard would be as beautiful in reality. The rest of us who already have the experience and skills for separating the seeds from the fluff, suffer only losses from the bullshit that surrounds us. But the prof…

> But the profit made on the few clueless ones keeps the bullshit economy going You make it sound like the clueless ones are always the same people though. I certainly paid for my share of BS (and guilt-tripped my parents into paying before that) and now I feel like I'm not doing that any more (even though there was no point when I didn't feel this way..).

It's considered common knowledge in internet advertising that these are, in fact, mostly the same people - that's why everyone tries to do as much retargeting as they can.

Re: Death to Bullshit

#197

Post by beagle3 » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #156

The vast majority of working adults in the US are employed in the making and selling of things people don't need. A world without bullshit is total, utter economic collapse. It's the end of capitalism. It's hundreds of millions of people with nothing to do all day and no way to sustain themselves, an inevitable civil war with the landlord class, and a revolution that manages to install a government's that quite possi…

> The vast majority of working adults in the US are employed in the making and selling of things people don't need. A world without bullshit is total, utter economic collapse.

There's little difference between "things that people don't need", and "things that people may need but are done inefficiently".

In the late 19th century, you might have said that "a world with cars means utter economic collapse of the whip-and-buggy-and-horse trades". And you would be right - but that just means people (and jobs) are reallocated to more useful stuff.

And that is what would (and should, but never will) happen if bullshit is eradicated -- rather than total economic collapse. This kind of eradication does not happen overnight - it takes a long time, and except for the incumbents who are too happy with their share, everyone sees it coming and adjusts accordingly.

Re: Death to Bullshit

#198

Post by spopejoy » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #163

x5n1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wallerstein said that Capitalism has failed for the Capitalist class, what he means is that it's costing more and more to make a dollar. The reason that income is falling is because the Capitalist class expects to continue making billions against a market which is efficient. They just squeeze that profit out of the worker's paychecks. Ultimately, that's the problem. The Capitalist project has reached its end, but the…

>Wallerstein said that Capitalism has failed for the Capitalist class, what he means is that it's costing more and more to make a dollar. The reason that income is falling is because the Capitalist class expects to continue making billions against a market which is efficient. They just squeeze that profit out of the worker's paychecks. I do recall some rather elaborate book, perhaps entitled Capital , being written a…

Careful now, people might think you mean Piketty

Re: Death to Bullshit

#199

Post by Canada » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #56

Canada wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just used one to board a plane. It worked well, that's no bullshit.

I think it was probably an unjustified replacement for a simple bar code in your case. I check in using bar codes usually :)

I know you're joking, but if you were told to write a ticket system today, what would you choose?

QR codes are an international standard, have plenty of good libraries to generate and process them, can store more information, have excellent error correction, and easily scan from odd angles.

Other types of bar codes... not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcode#Types_of_barcodes

Re: Death to Bullshit

#200

Post by ddingus » Mon, Sep 07, 2015, 9:57 PM UTC

brc wrote: post #192

ddingus wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not all about productivity. People are already quite productive. Technology can continue to improve on this too. It's all about how we value people. Labor is the source of new wealth creation. Capital can augment this by sourcing technology, automation, etc... There is also infinite demand. That's good news. However, this demand breaks down into two coarse buckets: 1. Demand backed by liquid dollars and or acces…

The real question here is why are low paid people unable to keep up with the cost of living. What is pushing the cost of living higher than a minimum wage earner can be productive for? The answer is taxes and regulations. Taxes make everything more expensive. Regulations choke supply of everything from energy to land. Of course, some taxes and some regulation is necessary. But the first thing to do is to stop adding…

No. We need those things. A robust, wealthy society does not come for free. Taxes fund all of that.

Regulations are necessary too. Without them, we will experience very significantly higher risks and with those come costs.

The reason is simple: They are not getting paid enough. Wages in the US have been essentially flat while most everything else is on the rise, including profit.