Live data from Hacker News

Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

miamiherald.com

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#21

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

[deleted]

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#22
post #12

Despite the impact it has on the availability of unskilled manual labour jobs, I think it's great that machines are finally turning to harvesting - having worked on a similar project to do with grapes (specifically, pruning), it's not always the easiest of things. It does highlight to me that we are getting closer to the point of needing to rethink labour distribution, because the non-technical jobs are the easiest t…

Even the people who get replaced get some benefit in that they get access to cheaper food. Not enough to replace their income, but the point is that automation is good for humanity.

Only the Luddites want to smash machines and keep a shirt costing a days wages.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#23
post #20

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

My local McDonalds is experimenting with touch screen menus. I guess automated kitchens won't be far behind. It will be a shame when such an entry level job is no longer available to teenagers to learn about doing a job and working in a team.

No, it won't. The sooner we shift from labor to education as our source of social dignity the better. Let's pay people to go to school rather than to flip burgers.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#24

It's particularly import for people who are legislating minimum wage laws to read articles like this. Most of the legislation I've seen drafted, always has an exception for farm labor - and here is an example why. If you didn't have that exception, then it would quickly become the case that automation/machinery ends up being cheaper (or soon will), and those jobs will vanish pretty quickly. Now, that might not be ent…

Basic income is coming. Like it or not. Better if created with debt free fiat money. This way we can have nice inflation - 2-4% yearly.

Basic income is a bad idea. Idle hands do the devils work. People need to do something or they go crazy. Let's pay people to go to school. Better educated citizens means fewer Donald trumps. Add a consumption tax as well to discourage consumption so our economy can shift away from bullshit jobs.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#25

I wonder if there is some sort of more incremental way to introduce basic minimum income that won't get legislative pushback and will scale with automation.

This is already happening in the form of welfare, food stamps, tax credits, etc. lots of different programs.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#26
post #18

How anyone can lament the disappearance of back breaking unskilled field work is beyond me. Mechanisation and destruction of repetitive unskilled work is the driving force for the improvement of living standards and the advancement of civilization since the beginning of recorded history. The invention of agrarian civilization itself displaced hunter-gatherer tribes, should we lament the disappearance of nomads also?…

It's because the major proportion of those laborers have little to offer beside manual labor. Therefore as a labor force at a disadvantage, the publication takes the side of the plight of the disadvantaged. Of course a lot of the blame can be placed on the societies who value education too little to educate their population. On the other hand many of the laborers are unprivileged in their home countries as well. So i…

I share your concern for the people effected but the notion that these people have little to offer and can not, or will not move up the labor chain does far more harm then good. Most westerners great grand parents were either farm laborers or did some form of back breaking manual labour. The literacy rate was horrible and so forth. I doubt very much these farm workers could not transition into some from of service jobs with very little training. Or some lateral move into other manual labor positions in other parts of the economy.

I hired someone from Mexico on a visa into a 6 figure a year job who's father was literally a farm laborer. He was quite capable to do his job. Expecting nothing from people is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local McDonalds is experimenting with touch screen menus. I guess automated kitchens won't be far behind. It will be a shame when such an entry level job is no longer available to teenagers to learn about doing a job and working in a team.

No, it won't. The sooner we shift from labor to education as our source of social dignity the better. Let's pay people to go to school rather than to flip burgers.

Its ridiculous that people think the destruction of menial labour will be destructive given all the evidence to the contrary. Jobs have been render obsolete for centuries and the outcome has been an increase in education and skilled labour to do more rewarding jobs.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the major proportion of those laborers have little to offer beside manual labor. Therefore as a labor force at a disadvantage, the publication takes the side of the plight of the disadvantaged. Of course a lot of the blame can be placed on the societies who value education too little to educate their population. On the other hand many of the laborers are unprivileged in their home countries as well. So i…

I share your concern for the people effected but the notion that these people have little to offer and can not, or will not move up the labor chain does far more harm then good. Most westerners great grand parents were either farm laborers or did some form of back breaking manual labour. The literacy rate was horrible and so forth. I doubt very much these farm workers could not transition into some from of service jo…

While it's true immigrants in the 19 and early 20th centuries were uneducated, they had a generation or two available to catch up. In today's day and age, they have a few years to adjust to this new reality.

It's true that a good many could transition to other higher level jobs, but at that cost of labor, jobs will go to the domestic labor force. I.e. If I have a job where the going rate is 25/hr, why would I go thru the hoops of sponsorship in one case and on the other hand running afoul of immigration law by hiring a worker who can't legally work? Foreign migrant laborers are on special visas and don't transfer to other sectors.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income is coming. Like it or not. Better if created with debt free fiat money. This way we can have nice inflation - 2-4% yearly.

Basic income is a bad idea. Idle hands do the devils work. People need to do something or they go crazy. Let's pay people to go to school. Better educated citizens means fewer Donald trumps. Add a consumption tax as well to discourage consumption so our economy can shift away from bullshit jobs.

isnt there already a consumption tax? ie sales tax.

Re: Machines replace migrants as Maine blueberry harvest blooms

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income is coming. Like it or not. Better if created with debt free fiat money. This way we can have nice inflation - 2-4% yearly.

Basic income is a bad idea. Idle hands do the devils work. People need to do something or they go crazy. Let's pay people to go to school. Better educated citizens means fewer Donald trumps. Add a consumption tax as well to discourage consumption so our economy can shift away from bullshit jobs.

Plenty of corporate drones, upper middle class, millionaires and billionaires have done the devil's work with 12hr+ work days, they just do it on such a grand scale and under the protection of corporations they are rarely punished.

While moving to a basic income might require a shift in society's values, it's no more likely to cause criminal behavior than the ever increasing income disparity here in the U.S. A basic income would also likely usher in a new age of entrepreneurship once members of all economic classes can entertain the thought of doing work they love rather than forced to take any work they can get.

But I guess it's better to just quote a folklore and pretend the idleness is bad (of course Donal Trump got an education because he could readily afford it, didn't make him less wrong).

Post reply on HN