Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, I agree with you that Stockholm isn't the greatest city in the world to live in, nor Oslo, but they're not exactly filled to the brim with human misery, either.
They're also not socialist, in the sense that the parent comment was (I think) hinting at. There's plenty of capitalism at work in both Sweden and Norway.
Death to Bullshit
171–180 of 217 posts
Re: Death to Bullshit
#172Advertising in the US doesn't create demand. It just moves it around. America is spent out. The US personal savings rate is under 5%. Everything else gets spent, and the saved money gets spent later. There's no "pent-up demand" waiting to be unlocked by advertising. Advertising is thus a net lose for Americans. All that effort adds to cost. For some products, including movies, long distance phone service, and many pr…
> There's no "pent-up demand" waiting to be unlocked by advertising. This is why any economic recovery plans that don't focus on growing the income of middle- and lower-class americans is doomed to fail. The rich can already buy anything they want, and they're saving like crazy. Until we unleash more demand from the lower- and middle-class, all efforts are futile. It's also why we should be focusing on, and supportin…
Savings are not to be seen due to the inflationary policy of the FED.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you say a billboard is any more disruptive than whatever else I'd be looking at if the billboard weren't there? Maybe it's a tree, or a fence, or a cow, or a farm tractor, or just sand and dirt... but when you're driving on the Interstate, at some point you're going to get bored and your eyes are going to wander looking for something to fix on for at least a few seconds, other than the road in front of you.…
There certainly are better examples[1], but I think you are being willfully obtuse. Of course there would be something where the billboard would have been, but advertising is designed, at great expense and with a huge amount of effort, to arrest the attention of the audience. (A significant amount of which is accomplished by being intentionally obnoxious.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5766534
There certainly are better examples[1], but I think you are being willfully obtuse.*
Please... that kind of thing just lowers the level of discourse for everybody involved.
Of course there would be something where the billboard would have been, but advertising is designed, at great expense and with a huge amount of effort, to arrest the attention of the audience.
Perhaps it is, and what I'm saying then is that that doesn't bother me. But it's probably a reflection of some ideological / philosophical bias on my part. I've never been up-in-arms about advertising the way some people are. I don't even surf the web with an adblocker installed. Ads are something I see as occasionally beneficial, occasionally Really-Fucking-Annoying, and mostly just ignorable background noise. The only time I find myself drifting into anti-ad rage is when the ads are particularly obnoxious, or repetitive, etc. For example, video/audio ads on a page that start playing with no prompting from the user. That gets on my tits a bit, and that's where I jump on the "end the bullshit" bandwagon somewhat.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's no "pent-up demand" waiting to be unlocked by advertising. This is why any economic recovery plans that don't focus on growing the income of middle- and lower-class americans is doomed to fail. The rich can already buy anything they want, and they're saving like crazy. Until we unleash more demand from the lower- and middle-class, all efforts are futile. It's also why we should be focusing on, and supportin…
By growing the income, you mean growing their productivity so they make more money. Rising minimum wage and reducing hours does the exact opposite. Decreasing a tax burden is a good idea - but decreasing the tax burden on everyone. 'Tax the rich' while a popular strategy to single out a minority group, is ultimately a useless strategy as there aren't enough rich people to tax, and they already disproportionally pay m…
This is the exact same story we've been told for 30 years: if you want more jobs and more productivity just lower taxes. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now. It just enables the ultra-wealthy to siphon off wealth from the rest of society.
Ultimately that hurts productivity.
>The UK dabbled in extremely high investment taxes at 98%. I think this would fall under your 'tax the rich' proscription. The unfortunate side effect was that investment was virtually stopped overnight and the country stopped growing GDP for two whole years,
IIRC this was actually due to the oil crisis. The US, on the other hand, dabbled in ~90% tax rates in the 50s when it experienced high growth levels never before seen since.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personal income tax is more restricted but still works in a similar way. For example if I need to purchase a high-vis work outfit in order to do my job, that expense is deductible.
You also need to purchase food, housing and clothes to perform your job but those expenses aren't usually deductible so I would say there's a double standard.
Where do you draw the line between, "I need clothes to function as a human being", and "I buy clothes because I'm into fashion?"
We could probably come up with some general fair-ish rules, but their effects on consumer spending might do more harm than they help.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's no "pent-up demand" waiting to be unlocked by advertising. This is why any economic recovery plans that don't focus on growing the income of middle- and lower-class americans is doomed to fail. The rich can already buy anything they want, and they're saving like crazy. Until we unleash more demand from the lower- and middle-class, all efforts are futile. It's also why we should be focusing on, and supportin…
By growing the income, you mean growing their productivity so they make more money. Rising minimum wage and reducing hours does the exact opposite. Decreasing a tax burden is a good idea - but decreasing the tax burden on everyone. 'Tax the rich' while a popular strategy to single out a minority group, is ultimately a useless strategy as there aren't enough rich people to tax, and they already disproportionally pay m…
It's all about how we value people.
Labor is the source of new wealth creation. Capital can augment this by sourcing technology, automation, etc...
There is also infinite demand. That's good news. However, this demand breaks down into two coarse buckets:
1. Demand backed by liquid dollars and or access to credit
2. Demand not backed by liquid dollars and or access to credit.
The latter kind of demand doesn't do us much good, in that people want and need stuff, but do not have the means to participate in an economy to get those wants and needs satisfied. As a result, they go unmet, or are met by crime or local trade, or some other means that does not contribute to the overall demand otherwise present in the economy.
Wages have been essentially flat in the US for roughly 40 years. During that time, productivity has gone up, profit has gone up, GDP has gone up, and the cost and risk exposure seen by ordinary Americans has also gone up.
Our response has generally been to work more hours and or improve access to credit.
Many people also take on significantly greater risk exposure due to needs consuming most of their liquid dollars, which prevents them from accumulating savings.
It's not necessary to increase taxes on wealthy people to improve on this scenario and create more demand.
What is necessary is they simply take less. Increasing wages will increase demand. Think of that as an investment, not a tax, or cost.
As liquid demand improves, so will employment and so will tax revenue to the treasury. That tax revenue can be put to good use on infrastructure and other public works type efforts that are long overdue.
Spending on something that results in value being added to the nation makes the nation worth more and it makes the nation better able to compete globally, given that value is roughly aligned with those goals.
Obviously, the dig a hole and fill it in type scenario so often cited isn't a value add, and would not have the desired impact. But bridges, roads, networks, etc... would provide better paying jobs and those better paying jobs would begin to present demand rapidly.
The Interstate Highway system is a great example of this in action. We've been paid back many times the amount of money put into that system, and it presented lots of demand to business as well as enabled trade. Private investment, in tandem with the roads and liquid dollars available, resulted in lots of new economic activity, jobs and opportunity.
One problem I have with the idealized market view of labor is the imbalance between the buyers and sellers. A strict market view says the more supply of labor, the lower the cost in response. So a basic job is worth very little as there are always lots of competitors willing to work those basic jobs.
However, when a job does not pay as much as it costs the laborer to perform the work, we end up with a gap. The laborer has basic needs that will be met, or they die. That laborer may also have wants, that may or may not be met depending.
Where full time work, and that is a 40 hours / week on average expectation, does not actually deliver enough dollars to meet the basic needs of the laborer, something has to give, and that thing that gives is our safety net spending, crime, and other expensive things close the gap.
In reality, our taxes are subsidizing labor.
As much as wealthy people are concerned about being targeted to fund more of the society, all of us should be concerned about labor subsidies like this. I agree on limiting the scope and size of "tax the rich" type solutions, BTW.
But I also am sensitive to having to pay for labor subsidies when it's clear the enterprise could very easily pay modest living wages.
People have lives that break down into thirds. One to sleep, another for family / personal time, and one for work. Some argument can be made about the division of personal time and work, say 40 hours or 50 hours or 30 hours, but beyond that, it's not realistic to expect people to live to work and work to live.
This means full time labor needs to deliver enough income for the laborer to live a modest life and meet basic needs. That is the cost of labor for the laborer. And in this market based view, we all talk about the cost of business and margins. Perhaps we need to think about the laborer as a business and understand that they too have some basic costs, and that margins actually present in the form of non-committed, liquid dollars.
Demand.
If we do not value our labor properly, we fail to actualize demand in our economy which results in the AD as loss case we face right now. This also means we do not have the economic activity necessary to maintain our basic standard of living expectations either.
Pay people more. In the vast majority of cases profit will still be made and the business will still be viable, just with a reduced income expectation. For some, the increase in demand associated with more liquid dollars out there will mean growth by volume or revenue growth by improving on value added in the form of higher quality, etc...
And there is the choice right there. Some enterprises make that choice and they pay modest living wages when they could be paying minimum ones. Most aren't doing that, instead paying the absolute least, and the product of that is tepid demand and an ever increasing drain on our safety net programs, which are often performing as labor subsidy programs when they are intended to be real help for people who need it.
Full time laborers, on average, really do need to make enough to fund labor full time, or we deny ourselves the full benefit of that economic activity.
Finally, productivity continues to rise, but wages do not. Until we change those dynamics somehow, there is absolutely nothing that shows even more productivity would somehow resolve the problem.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that bullshit is a negative externality. It's cognitive pollution. Those who clutter the world with bullshit reap the rewards of nabbing the suckers who respond to it, but don't pay the costs of imposing those cognitive loads on everyone else. That leads to more bullshit than would be economically efficient. Take a simple example like billboards. If billboard advertisers had to pay every person whose l…
If billboard advertisers had to pay every person whose life experience is degraded by seeing a billboard for a product they'd never buy I've never found my life "degraded" by a billboard, even if it was for a product I'd never buy. In fact, some of them are still useful, especially when driving long distances on the Interstate. They're something to break the monotony and give you something to think about, if only for…
I seem to have no way to signal my demand for such things other than avoiding products and brands that advertise, but my signal is probably misinterpreted by companies thinking they're not advertising enough.
Maybe a better term is just negative externality. The masses suffer the negatives while the advertiser and the business paying for the ads receive nearly all the benefits.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#178This isn't just about advertising. It's equally about bad or distracting design. But ultimately it's about concentration. I believe, for the most part, that multitasking is a myth. When I am reading something difficult, or that I would like to remember in detail later, I need to focus on it exclusively and read it without interruption. That means ad blockers, print view, etc. > As the landslide of bullshit surges dow…
> Marketing and design are surely down to a psychological science by now. Really? I just read an article about how Apple is intentionally avoiding a traditional social media presence as a part of its marketing strategy. So does the science work like, "if you are rich enough to buy out several independent nations, do not use social media for marketing?" Or what? And as a designer myself, I have to say "science" applie…
Product quality, user interaction, control (and yes, that is value added to a lot of people who don't want to know stuff and just have tech work for them), etc...
Compare two pieces of technology on specs alone, and a lot of value is ignored. This is what is behind your average, "Apple computers cost too much" argument. The buyer of an Apple computer sees value in the OS, environment, packaging, design, etc... and they are willing to pay for that value too.
Others do not value those things, seeking only to get technology features at a lower price. To them, it's all fluff and margins play out accordingly.
Avoiding traditional social media is very likely part of that high value experience. People who don't want to be bothered or who want to run a little outside the mainstream mass means, ways, paths, pick up on that and it's likely working for Apple.
Consider two companies, both delivering a similar product. One competes on price, the other value added. The always low price company will do a lot of volume, but will also see very thin margins. The one delivering lots of value, properly positioning it, and asking to be paid for it, will do less volume, but see much higher margins.
Both companies will have to maintain all the infrastructure needed to service the market.
Apple is extremely well capitalized and this is part of why they are. Apple does the work others do, but does it well and with design sensibilities and experience goals that people will pay nicely for.
No need for a massive social media campaign. Those who see that value will pay for it easily. And it's not hard to miss, given the alternatives.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that bullshit is a negative externality. It's cognitive pollution. Those who clutter the world with bullshit reap the rewards of nabbing the suckers who respond to it, but don't pay the costs of imposing those cognitive loads on everyone else. That leads to more bullshit than would be economically efficient. Take a simple example like billboards. If billboard advertisers had to pay every person whose l…
"negative externality".. "It's cognitive pollution".. "imposing those cognitive loads on everyone else", "life experience is degraded by seeing a billboard" I'm seeing some BS here..a lot of hyperbolic, pseudo-psychology BS.
A negative externality is when one does something which imposes a cost or an 'economic bad' on someone else who is not being compensated for it.
The noise from the neighbor who mows his lawn at 7:00 on a Sunday morning is a negative externality. The neighbors lives are slightly worse off because their sleep, which was interrupted, has value to them.
When determining what should be done about this there are only a few ways this could go, the lawn-mower compensates his neighbors for the noise, the neighbors compensate the lawn-mower to mow his lawn at some other time, or the homeowner's association compels the lawn-mower to stop.
But there's at least one solution with a problem. If the neighbors pay the lawn-mower to not mow his lawn then we've created a situation where someone can be paid for doing something annoying to others and then demanding compensation to stop.
Hopefully you've seen how this metaphor translates to advertising, and specifically for the practice of paying to remove advertising.
Based on the numbers of users of various ad blockers there are a huge amount of people who find ads in general as a negative externality. Although you might argue that they're being compensated on websites by receiving some desirable content in return this doesn't translate to billboards where the annoyed viewer is gaining no other value.
Re: Death to Bullshit
#180It's funny. This page strikes me as the height of bullshit. It's basically a manifesto written by an individual interested in being another absolute arbiter of taste. It completely ignores the nuances, relativism and circumstance of how people internalize ideas, make decisions and generally connect. It even go as far as to say that it is the reason why being a great engineer or creator of things is am anti-pattern fo…
You use a lot of big words without actually saying anything.
The world is full of ideas and things being built everyday. Not respecting the "bullshit" effort of attempting to get an idea to standout with messaging, marketing or any other type of distribution reflects a naiveté and is in fact a practice of inflexible bullshit on what type of ideas are important.