No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking • Hacker News Board

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#61

Post by coleifer » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:28 AM UTC

FilterSweep wrote: post #51

siliconc0w wrote: post #34

On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like depr…

The underlying philosophy of AA is often ignored by the general public and involves an ego death the likes of which have very few equals. You are indoctrinated to the fact that not only do you have a "disease," or problem, but you are also a weak human being for having succumbed to such disease in the first place. Fortunately most people don't take the entire philosophy of the group to heart - if they did, I couldn't…

I don't think that's true at all. I think the idea of "let go and let god" is about realizing you are not in control, and accepting that (accepting the things you cannot change). This idea is found in many religions and philosophies and connotes life rather than death.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#62

Post by venomsnake » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

blazespin wrote: post #49

mdip wrote: post #42

I don't know how effective Alcoholics Anonymous really is (not saying one way or the other), but having the accountability placed on you by friends is a helpful thing in many other tough situations in life. You can see it underlying many useful bits of advice ("Have a cofounder" always comes to mind -- someone to motivate you when you're unable to do so yourself, perhaps?) Addiction is no joke and anything that can p…

Alcoholism isn't so much about addiction as it is about binge drinking. Lots of people have a couple of drinks everyday and function quite well. It's the four manhattans in quick succession where things go awry.

No it is not. Binge drinking is completely different (and harmless compared to alcoholism phenomenon). You usually grow out of binge drinking by your 18-19th birthday.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#63

Post by simoncion » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:08 AM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #62

blazespin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcoholism isn't so much about addiction as it is about binge drinking. Lots of people have a couple of drinks everyday and function quite well. It's the four manhattans in quick succession where things go awry.

No it is not. Binge drinking is completely different (and harmless compared to alcoholism phenomenon). You usually grow out of binge drinking by your 18-19th birthday.

> You usually grow out of binge drinking by your 18-19th birthday.

Except when you don't, as was the case with some adults that I spent a large chunk of my life with. Binge drinking is a different kind of alcoholism, but it is still alcoholism.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#64

Post by simoncion » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:16 AM UTC

port6667 wrote: post #48

speeder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clearly have some kind of vice related to caffeine... In the hardest periods of my life I managed to guzzle 6 liters of coca-cola every day, plus eating lots of chocolate, and drinking lots of coffee and tea, of course this also ruined my overall health. I recently managed to "get clean", but I also stopped working, then I gave up, decided to buy 1 liter of red-bull style energy drink (not redbull itself because I…

A liter of redbull subsitute? You sound like an addict just since you're talking quantities of caffeine. I hope you get past this. it's especially difficult because a lot of people don't realize caffene is a drug. Like watching a couple who drink three bottles of wine a day talk down on someone for drinking a liter of spirits as an alcoholic. They're one and the same.

> You sound like an addict just since you're talking quantities of caffeine.

I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say. If I did, I apologise in advance:

Because I get a day-long headache whenever I don't drink a caffeinated beverage for a day or so, I know that I'm a caffeine addict.

Speaking about volumes of ingestible substances with somewhat-known properties to provide a general idea of how much of a thing one is ingesting doesn't mean that one is an addict; it means that one is interested in attempting to convey information somewhat precisely. If you don't specify things in known quantities, you're left with vague and imprecise descriptors like "some", "not much", and "a lot".

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#65

Post by madaxe_again » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:24 AM UTC

Ah, this rang so many bells. My ex of ten years ago drank huge amounts and was in utter denial about there even being a possibility of a problem. I used to have to go out and find her, usually asleep in an alley, or passed out in a bar's toilets - the worst occasion was when she threw a brick at me, as I had come to pry her away from a bar, and the recoil sent her tumbling into the Thames, in December - fished her out - and the next morning she was convinced I had pushed her in. Stabbed me with a stiletto heel a few months later, because I was trying to stop her hurling our furniture from a fifth story window.

Ultimately we broke up as it's remarkably easy to bamboozle a drunk into admitting that yes, they have cheated on you dozens of times with dozens of men.

This woman is a high court judge now. As far as I can tell, most barristers and judges are full blown alcoholics. For some reason I loved her - probably in the same way as I love my three legged cat - broken, piteous things, both.

I suppose the point of where I'm going is that the only person who can rescue you is yourself. I tried for far too long for both of our sakes.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#66

Post by cafard » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:26 AM UTC

hashberry wrote: post #53

jheriko wrote: post #9

i wonder if this was a man how the story would go. much worse i'd imagine :/

I was thinking the same thing. It seems people are more forgiving of a woman's transgressions. For example, the bar manager who put her in a cab after four Manhattans. I'm trying to imagine a bar manager walking a drunk man out and putting him in a cab... unless this type of thing is common in New York?

I can remember the bar staff in Washington calling a cab for a guy, then noting down the taxi number as it drove off. They did this not once but regularly for this guy, a man in his 50s or early 60s. He was not staggering or sloppy drunk, but the bar staff, which dealt all the time with drinkers, thought this wisest.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#67

Post by RockyMcNuts » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:40 AM UTC

fredkbloggs wrote: post #36

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could never be an alcoholic, alcohol does nothing for me except dulling the senses. But there were kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. It was like heroin (I imagine, never tried it). Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. And this person is writing about it, exposing themself to potential criticism like this, and taking actio…

> kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. > Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. Can you explain how you got from point A to point B above? I don't understand how your observation implies dependency, addiction, or any of the numerous problems that alcoholism causes in someone's life. It is also true that some people have inherite…

What are you arguing exactly... no one has an exceptional reaction to drinking that suggests a possible future problem, so I couldn't have seen one? alcohol has the same effect on everyone? no one gets addicted? alcoholism doesn't have a genetic component?

I observe someone undergoes a huge personality change after drinking and seems a lot happier. I get a sense that this person might have difficulty consuming in moderation.

It seems consistent with a physiological or genetic basis. Not trying to win a prize in genetics or logic, just to use common sense to understand the human behavior I'm seeing.

I guess it's also possible something our mothers did while pregnant made the difference. I believe Occam's Razor and the body of evidence point to a genetic basis. What do you think the evidence points to?

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#68

Post by seizethecheese » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:55 AM UTC

coleifer wrote: post #59

siliconc0w wrote: post #37

On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like it w…

Have you ever been to an AA meeting or struggled with addiction? If not then I wouldn't make comments like this.

Why not? HN discusses all sorts of treatments all the time that none of us have tried. Making Alcoholics Anonymous unimpeachable smacks of religiousity.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#69

Post by bjwbell » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 6:41 AM UTC

mdip wrote: post #42

I don't know how effective Alcoholics Anonymous really is (not saying one way or the other), but having the accountability placed on you by friends is a helpful thing in many other tough situations in life. You can see it underlying many useful bits of advice ("Have a cofounder" always comes to mind -- someone to motivate you when you're unable to do so yourself, perhaps?) Addiction is no joke and anything that can p…

I'll admit it, I love drugs. Uppers, downers, I love them all. But I TRULY do not understand addiction. I just don't, and I've tried plenty of soft and hard drugs.

I'm not sure what I want to say but perhaps just that it's important to realize that your or mine experience is not at all the same as others.

Re: No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

#70

Post by bjwbell » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 6:48 AM UTC

speeder wrote: post #44

siliconc0w wrote: post #37

On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like it w…

I clearly have some kind of vice related to caffeine... In the hardest periods of my life I managed to guzzle 6 liters of coca-cola every day, plus eating lots of chocolate, and drinking lots of coffee and tea, of course this also ruined my overall health. I recently managed to "get clean", but I also stopped working, then I gave up, decided to buy 1 liter of red-bull style energy drink (not redbull itself because I…

This is just a suggestion but have you tried running? I'm also a caffeine /addict/ and running is my substitute of choice. Exercise is a huge stimulant (endorphins)