Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit • Hacker News Board

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#151

Post by Buge » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:58 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #132

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

From what little I know about this, which is listening to locals and some foreigners, this comes from the perverse incentive where maiming costs more than the manslaughter payout. It's from advice of prior extortion victims, accounts from the news, hearsay from friends, etc. The incentive is that trying to help a maimed person can cost you dearly. This same thing is why you don't see "good Samaritans". Good Samaritan…

But there's a difference between avoiding helping someone and intentionally taking action to kill someone.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#152

Post by AmVess » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:58 AM UTC

matt2000 wrote: post #76

The fact that this story is the top of hacker news should indicate to us all that this site has lost what it had. How is this different than reddit? How do we want it to be different? This is simply a sensational, horrifying article that has been up voted because of its shock value. We can do better.

Participation on topics is entirely voluntary. If you don't like a subject, don't participate. There are other people you use this site who might find things interesting that you do not. Don't like it? Shut up and don't respond.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#153

Post by vadman » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:02 AM UTC

stephen_cagle wrote: post #97

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

I think you have to look at this from a certain perspective. Think about it, this is a country of 1.3 billion people. How often does this actually happen? Secondly, think about incentives. Maybe I am hopelessly naive, but I believe that the majority of human beings have something built into them that stops them from hurting others. For the majority of humanity, you don't need laws against murder, internal morality an…

One thing baffles me. If parents knew (there is security camera footage) that their child was run over several times because some asshole made a RATIONAL choice; and then said parents hired a bunch of guys to disappear the asshole, suddenly the expected penalty would change, and so would the rational choice. (There probably wouldn't be much of an investigation, either.) So why aren't they doing it? If the government can't/won't set the proper incentives for the assholes not to murder, why can't the people do it themselves? Desperate times call for desperate measures...

ADDENDUM: admittedly my comment above is emotional. Obviously not every accident ends in the driver running over the victim several times. But from the article and from some of the comments, I got an impression that these cases are not THAT unusual, and it's not just a case of a Western newspaper publishing a sensationalist Sinophobic article.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#154

Post by k4renio » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:02 AM UTC

stephen_cagle wrote: post #97

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

I think you have to look at this from a certain perspective. Think about it, this is a country of 1.3 billion people. How often does this actually happen? Secondly, think about incentives. Maybe I am hopelessly naive, but I believe that the majority of human beings have something built into them that stops them from hurting others. For the majority of humanity, you don't need laws against murder, internal morality an…

Sure, this is an extreme case but when living in china you are confronted daily to behaviours that defies our sense of moral. China should pour founds into education but they will never do as educated people would be the end of "elite controlled" china of today.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#155

Post by chaostheory » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:03 AM UTC

revelation wrote: post #33

Well, in the US it doesn't matter, there are no consequences either way. You can literally rampage up a sidewalk and send a bunch of kids to hospital, and have city council line up excuses for you. [0] If you do manage to kill someone, no worries, just tell police you were grasping for some milk carton. [1] If you go by police, there are literally plenty of cars of all makes and forms randomly losing control! [2] The…

So you're implying that most lethal car accidents in the US are intentional?

Also in the US just because you escape criminal charges it doesn't mean that you won't be liable for heavy damages in civilian court.

Does the US have a widespread problem of people trying to kill their victims after an accident to avoid paying legal damages?

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#156

Post by mc32 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:05 AM UTC

Buge wrote: post #151

mc32 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what little I know about this, which is listening to locals and some foreigners, this comes from the perverse incentive where maiming costs more than the manslaughter payout. It's from advice of prior extortion victims, accounts from the news, hearsay from friends, etc. The incentive is that trying to help a maimed person can cost you dearly. This same thing is why you don't see "good Samaritans". Good Samaritan…

But there's a difference between avoiding helping someone and intentionally taking action to kill someone.

Yes, of course. But the economic calculus is similar. The economic disincentive is huge.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#157

Post by jacalata » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:12 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #132

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

From what little I know about this, which is listening to locals and some foreigners, this comes from the perverse incentive where maiming costs more than the manslaughter payout. It's from advice of prior extortion victims, accounts from the news, hearsay from friends, etc. The incentive is that trying to help a maimed person can cost you dearly. This same thing is why you don't see "good Samaritans". Good Samaritan…

You could add to your knowledge by reading the linked article under discussion

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#158

Post by bennesvig » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:13 AM UTC

the_economist wrote: post #109

Xcelerate wrote: post #77

I could not finish this article. I have read about and seen a lot of disturbing things, but this bothers me far more than any horror movie or shock film ever could. The situation exposed in this article evidences something really fundamental about human nature: the banality of evil. That someone could run over a toddler and then reverse back and forth over them just so they only have to pay $50,000 instead of $400,00…

Humans are basically good: http://www.ted.com/talks/ben_dunlap_talks_about_a_passionate...

I'd say not good or bad but flawed.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#159

Post by gkanai » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:18 AM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #110

orthoganol wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in China for a few months. The way it was explained to me was, it's you and your family, and everyone else can f * off.

This is spot on. There's a reason that people's last name comes before their first over there. It's a low trust society where the only thing that matters is your clan.

Last name first has nothing to do with trust. Japan is one of the highest-trust societies in the world (see crime stats) and last name comes first. I live in China and have lived 13 years in Japan so I know what I am talking about.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#160

Post by Steko » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:20 AM UTC

orthoganol wrote: post #63

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

I lived in China for a few months. The way it was explained to me was, it's you and your family, and everyone else can f * off.

One reaction people might have to this is 'ugh China'. Another one might be 'ugh rich people'. Article reminded me of the Brazilian banker who ran over a bunch of cyclists a few years ago.