How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#121

Post by ageektrapped » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

edpichler wrote: post #34

At least it's no so expensive.

I use a lot of Jetbrains' IDEs and have for years: ReSharpe, dotCover, etc., WebStorm, PHPStorm. I also have Rubymine but probably won't need it after the license expires. I use the first three often enough that I'd keep renewing the license to keep up with versions.

The use-it-all yearly price is cheaper, plus I can try their other IDEs. (Looking at you AppCode!)

Seems like a win to me. I heard about the change through the OP, which filled me with dread. Then I went to their website, which filled me with relief.

I've always found their IDEs worth the price.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#122

Post by mikeash » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:34 PM UTC

nadams wrote: post #112

mikeash wrote: post #66

What bugs me about this is when I asked them about the change on Twitter and they kept trying to blow smoke up my butt about how it's better for everyone. Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Then they said it's better because you can jump in and out at will. Only need Product X for a month? Only pay for a month. Which is fi…

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…

I'm glad it's better for you (really!).

But they shouldn't present it as better for everyone when it's clearly not.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#123

Post by gdulli » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:34 PM UTC

Personally, they had lost my goodwill already with their old upgrade policy. If you bought a license on 01/2014, it expired on 12/2014, and you didn't need the product again until 04/2015, the upgrade you purchase in April begins on 01/2015, retroactively beginning after the end of the previous license. So you don't get the full 12 months they charge you for. When I realized that it was the end of my support for them.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#124

Post by Oletros » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:34 PM UTC

nadams wrote: post #112

mikeash wrote: post #66

What bugs me about this is when I asked them about the change on Twitter and they kept trying to blow smoke up my butt about how it's better for everyone. Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Then they said it's better because you can jump in and out at will. Only need Product X for a month? Only pay for a month. Which is fi…

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…

> Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan)

If you need that.

The individual products are more expensive with the subscription plan if you buy a license starting 1/1/2016

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#125

Post by mikeash » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #115

mikeash wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the fact that with the old model your purchase keeps working forever, you just don't get updates. With the new model, your purchase stops working when the subscription runs out. If they went out of business or raised prices in the old model, I could keep using the version I purchased for as long as I wanted. With the new model, my software turns into a pumpkin and my choice is either to keep pa…

You can use the open source community edition of many of their products forever...

If that's the solution then I guess I might as well get started with it now.

Edit: oh, exactly one of their products has a Community Edition. Guess that's not much of an option after all, unless that's the one product you need.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#126

Post by zeveb » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

What I don't get is why a developer would ever use proprietary software in the first place. I code—it's what I do. I want to tools to be excellent, certainly, and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time fixing them where they aren't, but I want to be able to improve them for my use cases. Who else in the world is as capable at knowing what I need as…me?

If you use proprietary software, you're at the mercy of the vendor for features and, as this shows, for pricing and pricing model changes.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#127

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

nadams wrote: post #112

mikeash wrote: post #66

What bugs me about this is when I asked them about the change on Twitter and they kept trying to blow smoke up my butt about how it's better for everyone. Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Then they said it's better because you can jump in and out at will. Only need Product X for a month? Only pay for a month. Which is fi…

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…

[deleted]

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#128

Post by hoopism » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

In the previous thread on the announcement I expressed some concerns (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10165919). An employee responded:

"I see this is turning into a conspiracy theory ) Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly"

So the message first was "We did this for YOU!" and then quickly became "Hey! You can always go elsewhere..."

Doesn't sound like something they did for my benefit.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#129

Post by progmal1 » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:36 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #126

What I don't get is why a developer would ever use proprietary software in the first place. I code—it's what I do. I want to tools to be excellent, certainly, and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time fixing them where they aren't, but I want to be able to improve them for my use cases. Who else in the world is as capable at knowing what I need as…me? If you use proprietary software, you're at the mercy of the…

You are right about being at the mercy, but I have not used free software as good as the Microsoft Visual Studio IDE for development.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#130

Post by Oletros » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 2:36 PM UTC

acveilleux wrote: post #111

stoshe wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical move to subscription based pricing LOWERS costs to the consumer, but the company gets the benefit of more predictable recurring revenues. That makes the pricing JetBrains puts out a little bit of a head-scratcher.

Starting from zero, their pricing is lower over a set number of year. They got rid of the initial "hump" and in turn made the annual amount higher. I didn't look too closely but I guess the cost evens out over a 3-4 year subscription span. For a business this is actually going to simplify accounting I would think. It's no longer a cap-ex with a maintenance fee, it's just rental so all pre-tax. My guess is that overal…

> Starting from zero, their pricing is lower over a set number of year.

Starting from zero the prices are the same or higher. The worst offender, Webstorm, from 49€ first year and 29€ next years to 99€/year from the start

PyCharm is 40€/year more expensive from the second year